Radionics

[hung]

Case

Well, new year but old discussion...

I'd like to present a case which might no look related to LRLs at first but I do believe it's much more than we could dare to think. Specially the concepts and fields involved in comparison to dowsing abilities, ESP, and yes, radionics to some degree.
It's a good case for all of us 'researchers' here to debate and share ideas.

Sometime ago I was watching a cable TV show in the 'Infinito' network. Infinto is USA's 'Discovery Channel' type like' network. Only it's Argentinian I believe. In fact this channel was took off our program grid in Brazil unfortunately, although it remains for Latin America.

Well, anyways, the show was about psychic powers and one special case did draw my attention.
There's this young guy who could 'see' not only with his eyes...
The tester told him he would be given 4 cards face down. The cards exibited pictures of complete different subjects such as bird, formula one automobile, a sailing ship, etc.. All in colors.
The tester then placed the cards faced down in a table and asked this guy if he could tell which picture was which.
I remember that the tester did not know which card was which also as they were mixed previously, so telepathy, mind reading and those kind of things were eliminated.
I've seen those kind of tests before, but no one close to this guy's ability. He positioned one of his hands above the card and promptly 'saw' them describing the figures, even the colors sucessfully.
Assuming he's not a magician, ET or hoaxer of any kind.
This special ability is inherent to us all but at possbile different degrees as he proves his is quite powerful.

Questions:

1 - Is the eye really the only factor responsible for viewing?

2 - Is it possible that the eye is only an 'interface' for a much broader way
of vision sensing?

3 - In the case of the above being positive, could it be that all of our senses
and beyond common sense are a result of a perception field on some kind
which lies around us?

4 - Are those fileds of known origin? If so, how could they interact?

Nice thinking to all.

[michael]

Hung, I believe it thoroughly, as I have seen much cases of this and more strange. about the guy I mentioned above, I didn't tell all, as thought maybe people here think I'm making fiction.
He could move small objects by mind concentration with executed energy through his hand on it. he was even little able to read audiences mind.
Here I before met face to face some people who had incredible abilities.
The weirdest was an old physician with this god-given talent. He was really incredible.
it was first time we met each other and didn't know anything about each other, just I had heard about his abilities, [please don't poke fun at me I'm really honest] he told my name, my father & mother name, he told boldest stories of my past life, present time and a little foretold about my future, he even got near my ear and told:" you are doing a dangerous work, you search for treasures,...." My brain was locked and I was shocked.
I'm sure no one had told these to him, but from where he knew these, I just wanted to see him so that to examine him and quench the thirst of my curiosity, also he told me most of things that were highly private and personal, but he couldn't do anything on objects by his mind.
What's the man mind? a complicated world that flesh, blood and bone are not all the matters.
Hung, in your answer, No, eyes are not the only factor or means to see, there are some other things in this world ghost is the main factor that differentiate man from other existences. all other things; flesh, brain gray cells,… are alibi.
Oh, one thing I'm sure is noticeable: today I heard of our national radio news that France is going to utilize an unique internet site with so many information about UFOs: formal and informal reports, every genuine taken pictures by people or organizations from UFOs thru 30 past years.
What's your opinion? when you got the address, please inform me.

[hung]

it was first time we met each other and didn't know anything about each other, just I had heard about his abilities, [please don't poke fun at me I'm really honest] he told my name, my father & mother name, he told boldest stories of my past life, present time and a little foretold about my future, he even got near my ear and told:" you are doing a dangerous work, you search for treasures,...." My brain was locked and I was shocked.
I'm sure no one had told these to him, but from where he knew these, I just wanted to see him so that to examine him and quench the thirst of my curiosity, also he told me most of things that were highly private and personal, but he couldn't do anything on objects by his mind.
What's the man mind? a complicated world that flesh, blood and bone are not all the matters.

My friend I believe you 100% because I know of such phenomena. And you show you are an exceptional kind of person whose honesty is unquestionable. You have the guts to come to this forum and tell your experiences. That's really noble from you!
Back to the subject, I also met and know of several human beings who do what your friend does. This is called mediumship. A kind of energy inherent to some which allows for this.
I was going to refer to this really later but you seemed to be really smart and figured it all real fast.
Ok, now we got to this point (and there's no going back anymore), I want to know from you and from the others: In your opinion how these energy fields manifest? Electromagnetic printings relating to pre determined frequencies? On what powersource? Any induction involved? What kind?
Does standard physics explain that? I bet so , but not your ordinary science project instructions manual...
Can we achieve it with current electronics? Ahh.. Why not?

I know a guy who touching an object can determine all the story related to it , even the date!
This is called 'psycometrics' and is a rare kind of mediumship. But there are some in the world.
Oh yes... The TV show 'Dead Zone'... Or you thought it was all fiction?
Hey check some Unified Field Theory papers.. It's all there!

Now go back to Radionics definition and see how interaction is programed...
Wow... How much food for thought!

[Qiaozhi]

Go on, build your rotor and don't keep looking at a drawing, telling yourself the reasons it should not work.
Does this sound familiar here?

No-one here disputes that the Ripoff (Psychic) motor actually works. It just doesn't rotate by psi waves (mind control). As I said before, it was a "joke" placed in the appendix of a book written by a self-confessed skeptic, who was also a member of CSICOP; and you believed it!!
That's the real joke!

Well, anyways, the show was about psychic powers and one special case did draw my attention.
There's this young guy who could 'see' not only with his eyes...
The tester told him he would be given 4 cards face down. The cards exibited pictures of complete different subjects such as bird, formula one automobile, a sailing ship, etc.. All in colors.
The tester then placed the cards faced down in a table and asked this guy if he could tell which picture was which.
I remember that the tester did not know which card was which also as they were mixed previously, so telepathy, mind reading and those kind of things were eliminated.
I've seen those kind of tests before, but no one close to this guy's ability. He positioned one of his hands above the card and promptly 'saw' them describing the figures, even the colors sucessfully.
Assuming he's not a magician, ET or hoaxer of any kind.
This special ability is inherent to us all but at possbile different degrees as he proves his is quite powerful.

Google for "Derren Brown" if you want to know someone who can do all this and more. He freely admits that he has no psychic powers whatsoever, and everything is done by a combination of psychology, magic, misdirection, illusion and showmanship. Even when he tells people the truth they don't believe him!

he told my name, my father & mother name, he told boldest stories of my past life, present time and a little foretold about my future, he even got near my ear and told:" you are doing a dangerous work, you search for treasures,...." My brain was locked and I was shocked.

I admit that this ability can truly shock you into thinking someone has some psychic ability. This is known as a "cold reading", and was very popular in Victorian times. There is nothing psychic about it. It's a very clever trick that almost anyone can learn. There are several free e-books on the internet, if you want to know how it's done. Read them, and don't get fooled again.

[hung]

Google for "Derren Brown" if you want to know someone who can do all this and more. He freely admits that he has no psychic powers whatsoever, and everything is done by a combination of psychology, magic, misdirection, illusion and showmanship. Even when he tells people the truth they don't believe him!

Are you admiting to believe in magic?
I hope not.
I don't know him and maybe he is a trick afterall. But I know what I'm talking about and I bet Michael is also. I know the people with this supposed 'powers' here and they are no trick at all. In fact they know their gift and understand it.
I admit I don't like the term 'psychic' as this is not what means exactly in portuguese which has a much more related term.
This is a special condition found in some people which involves other things. I am aware you cannot even speculate about it because it's totally akin from you nature. Sorry, but this all goes back to what I already have stated. It's natural to the human nature to dismiss as magic, fraud, hypnosis, etc. everything they cannot understand and explain.
A suggestion: Although US virtually mistreated all cases as fraud, etc. you could try to research the Florence Cook's case. However I am afraid all of this are corrupted in conclusions as well.
It's exactly as the 'flat earth' belief. None dared to dismiss this idea for a long time. They accepted it but none had ever sailed that far to know if it was true or not. Get it?
Until one day when finally the rounded earth idea was accepted. How much time did this take to happen? How much effort was needed to implement it?
That's why I began to study this a long, long time ago. To understand. When we understand we accept.

I admit that this ability can truly shock you into thinking someone has some psychic ability. This is known as a "cold reading", and was very popular in Victorian times. There is nothing psychic about it. It's a very clever trick that almost anyone can learn. There are several free e-books on the internet, if you want to know how it's done. Read them, and don't get fooled again.

Sorry again. I'm afraid you are completely wrong and misled here. This is normal as you have no basis to draw even a preliminary conclusion.
I cannot ask you to believe as this takes time and study. You would have to unblock every wrong and false concepts you believe are right from all those years. Because they are not. I've been through this in the past... I know. It's hard. But then comes the reward when finally you discover the truth.
So, if you could only admit it for a second, just for the record, you could try to answer the questions I posted above. This would be a good start and you would be contributing with your own ideas as well.

[Qiaozhi]

Are you admiting to believe in magic?

I think you are misunderstanding my words. When I refer to "magic" I mean "conjuring", not the stuff you see in the Harry Potter films. That's just make-believe. You have clearly not researched this area very well, otherwise you would understand the psychology that is being used here.

It's natural to the human nature to dismiss as magic, fraud, hypnosis, etc. everything they cannot understand and explain.

You're getting confused with all this mumbo jumbo. It is human nature to attribute things that cannot be understand to psychic phenonemon, little green men, etc., when they cannot easily be explained - not the other way round. Remember Occam's Razor, and use it often.

Sorry again. I'm afraid you are completely wrong and misled here.

If you say so...
You seem to have an amazing capacity to change the meaning of your experiences against your own map of reality. This type of distortion does not necessarily represent the truth. It is just your own perception of it.
Anyway, shouldn't you be playing Indiana Jones, and searching for your recently "discovered" treasure cave?

[Dell Winders]

I don't know whether this truth will will provide any enlightnment as to the abilities of the human bio-computer, but they are my personal experiences which have been confirmed by independent witnesses as each of the markers were found at the Dowsed locations.

And there are more. Perhaps the Skeptic mind can provide a logical explanation for my detecting these on a Topo map, or aerial photo from hundreds, or thousands of miles away from a place I had never been to?? Even though I am unable to provide a suitable scientific explanation, I cannot deny the fact.

DOWSING EXAMPLES LINK: http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...c,24475.0.html

"WHAT HAS BEEN DONE, CAN BE DONE" Dell

[Qiaozhi]

DOWSING EXAMPLES LINK: http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...c,24475.0.html

OK - I've clicked on the link, read the words more than once, but I still see no evidence that treasure was recovered at this site, with or without dowsing being involved. :confused:

[Dell Winders]

It was not my intention to display Treasure for you. Only a method that I use and soliciting your Scientific explanation of how I am able to do this?

I'm sorry! I am unable to help you with your reading skills, or comprehension. Dell

[Qiaozhi]

It was not my intention to display Treasure for you.

So there was no treasure??

Only a method that I use and soliciting your Scientific explanation of how I am able to do this?

To do what?
Hanging a pendulum over a map has already been scientifically explained earlier in this thread. It's an excellent demonstration of the ideomotor effect.

[hung]

So there was no treasure??


To do what?
Hanging a pendulum over a map has already been scientifically explained earlier in this thread. It's an excellent demonstration of the ideomotor effect.

Qiaozhi it's not ideomotor effect. How long will you fool yourself by thinking this?
An old saying states that the right moment will arrive to everyone till they see the light and wake up. It's pretty sure your moment still has not come.

[Rudy]

Rudy, what I alluded was not for body heat. body heat is as a simple affair not need to be determined by this kind of device. one thermometer suffices.
it worked with mind concentration. every time tried to concentrate mind on device, it moved didn't need to get hand near the device.
or another example one of my compatriots who could bend rough things such as steel spoon by his mind power he just held his hand over the object and concentrated his mind, the object was being bended. He did this frequently in front of National TV camera and said to the interviewer that he was supposed to cooperate with an [American]institute which study on man specific or unknown energies. I remember he pointed to one kind of magnetic energy, but didn't point exactly to the institute name. of course every time
he was under a heavy pressure and his eyes became tearful.[it was genuine not hocus-pocus] Now, what can call this kind of energy?
it's obvious has no relation to body temperature. Admittedly he is an exceptional case, but this represents all people; me, you and others have at least a shadow of this energy.

I have never seen what you refer to, so I withold judgment.

About this as I remember in previous discussions in different threads some members believed high frequencies (at MHZ or GHZ scales can spread or penetrate appropriately in soil and ground) now I see you are in versus.
you believe in VLFs in Hz scale!!! 2 days before I got acquainted with a genius in physic.
We talked much about radio frequencies,...I asked him" do you admit RFs can travel on & inside ground?" his A:" Yes, high frequencies do this much better, the lower the more difficult" As I had made test myself by my RF generator; either in HZ or KHZ, asked his opinion about it. he told : "it depends on power & amplification, in what power?" my A: " e.g. 100 Watt" his A:" yes of course" My Q:" how far? some inches or 1 meter?"[here I knew answer based on my own experience] his A:" no, much more, based on ground condition up to 100 or hundreds meters" I added :" some people who claim are very experienced and knowledgeable in RF sciences, believe that these kind of waves can go only up to some inches,.." He was surprised and told these are axiom.
His comments was exact conjoint to my EE friend comments.

I was making reference to long distance transmission of RF signals through the earth core. High frequency RF signals can also penetrate the earth, but their penetration is limited in depth. For example, ground penetrating radar send very high frequency RF pulses, but penetration is limited.

The penetration of RF signals is limited by an effect analogous to skin effect, where the penetration depth is inversely proportional to the square root of the frequency and the magnetic permeability of the earth.

Of course, the ELF RF although it can penetrate more deeply for the same energy expenditure, lacks the ability to "image" small objects due to their extremely long wavelengths.

Then he talked much about Satellite, and a kind of nuisance in RF categories (GAMER),... were very interesting and out of here patience.
Now I have reached one point : most of our believes have been wrong. specially after make a connection with one of my compatriots who owns OKM exp 4000 &5000 and knows this forum, but only reads themes.
by 2 weeks ago I believed OKM devices are bogus, now I'm in versus. this guy have found many objects by exps. and mailed me that he has even found 2 object by Lectra search the device that I and even he dislike it.
with exp 5000 there is 4 VLF generators that produce 40 KHZ waves and injected to ground, then you search there by detector, in this attitude it can find metals much more better. why? you see injected Fr. is not in Hz range. it remembered me Okantex notification; he offered me to compose Zahori with RF generator instead of other type of rods. when weather allow,we will do it for every kind of detector; PI MD, Rover C and even FG80.

Sorry, I didn't understand the above.

Is static electricity able to rotate the rotor clockwise and anticlockwise?
And why is it important to position the hand facing north? Would this relate with earth's magnetic pole?
Hummm?

Hung, I was taking issue with your assertion that magnetism was causing the rotor to turn. You stated, and I quote: "The Ripoff Rotor is another way of demonstrating how magnetic fields in our bodies work and emanate."
I replied that static electricity has an effect on paper (attractive in this case), but that magnetism does not. I never said static electricity rotates the rotor and you haven't proved or shown how magnetism can.

My dear friend, as I stated earlier, we discovered things which corroborate much of accepted science is WRONG! And they even bother to correct themselves...Humm..Why would that be?

How about some concrete examples rather than just talking in ambiguities?

Unless you develop experiments to try to prove or not some allegations in science, you can never state or believe what is estabilished as fact, because sometimes it's not.

That is precisely what science is all about. A formal theory is built, from it, predictions are made, and a cadre of trained experimentalists devise carefully controlled experiments to test out the predictions made by the theory. If the results do not quite agree with the theory, the reasons are investigated and the theory is revised.

One beautiful example that comes to mind was the prediction in Eisntein's relativity theory that a gravitational field bends time and space. This was experimentally proven years later.

Eg. Everyday we have the 'experts' changing the age of things in history according to their findings.
In physics, etc, it happens the same thing, but they do not even bother to do it. Humm... Why would that be...?

You didn't give a specific example so I can't comment, but the body of scientific knowledge is not static. It is always changing as new experimental evidence is brought to bear, independently reproduced by other scientists, and found to contradict what existing theories predict. In some cases, the path is different, theory first, experimental evidence later (e.g. Special Theory of Relativity).

Oftentimes there are multiple theories and they are used to compute or make predictions about different things. For example, Newtonian physics can do quite nicely for many things here on earth, whereas Relativity is more appropriate at the cosmological level and quantum mechanics is more useful at the subatomic level.

Does this sound familiar here?
Pseudo science eh?
Yes.. I see, everything that can't be explained with our current resources is called that. Specially when this knowledge is not acessible.
Bad start pal, I had hopes you were smarter than that. I was wrong.

Without a solid theoretical foundation behing it, or a well documented set of experiments that can be reproduced by independent scientific teams, it is just what I called it. Pseudo science. Cold fusion comes to mind.

You haven't produced one shred of data or experimental evidence that has been corroborated by others under controlled conditions, to qualify it as science. And I am speaking in the context of the original thread here. That is, wether LRLs really detect at long range, wether the results can be reproduced by other independent experimenters,.... In short, what makes science a science. Nothing to do with other stuff (Ripoff motors, Helmholtz coils,...)

[Qiaozhi]

Qiaozhi it's not ideomotor effect. How long will you fool yourself by thinking this?
An old saying states that the right moment will arrive to everyone till they see the light and wake up. It's pretty sure your moment still has not come.

Again - you are denying reality. These things have been put to the test, and a rational explanation has been found. You are between a rock and a hard place.
If you don't agree that's it's ideomotor effect, then what do you believe?

[hung]

How about some concrete examples rather than just talking in ambiguities?

Unfortunately the term 'ambiguity' is much more apropriate to most science today than it ever was.

That is precisely what science is all about. A formal theory is built, from it, predictions are made, and a cadre of trained experimentalists devise carefully controlled experiments to test out the predictions made by the theory. If the results do not quite agree with the theory, the reasons are investigated and the theory is revised.

No, no. It's the opposite ! No theory will be ever made without first empiric experimentation. By performing what you state above, you show EXACTLY how handicaped scientific aproach is today. Theory will only be formulated when you think you know what just happened in your experiment! Then you look for a mathematical of physical understanding. How absurd is the idea of having a theory be first launched than an experiment! You would be limiting the experimentation solely!
In our case. We did the experiment, then we had to revise physics to acomodate it. But first we had an initial mathematical model which could be physically reproduced. Then by using the math applied in what was observed, new aspects were displayed.

You didn't give a specific example so I can't comment, but the body of scientific knowledge is not static. It is always changing as new experimental evidence is brought to bear, independently reproduced by other scientists, and found to contradict what existing theories predict. In some cases, the path is different, theory first, experimental evidence later (e.g. Special Theory of Relativity).

Only if it does not prove being a military or power advantage. What do you think have happened to most of Tesla's papers?
We are in our science infancy. In fact 18th and 19th century scientists are way ahead of today's in many aspects. Part because there's no more scientific research as used to be in that era. Part because of financial , more profitable reasons.
One example that comes to mind of that era type researchers today are canadian John Hutchison, Reginald Jaynes and Naudin, to name a few. Huthcison's work using modified Tesla coils and Van der Graaf generators created what it's known today as the Hutchison Effect. This was first acomplished in 1979 by mere empyrical experimentation. Still how it can be reproduced is unknown today. Military seeked him badly and he had his lab confiscated twice. This is an example of how this kind of tech can lead to serious trouble if divulged.
That's why I will never disclose what we went trough 12 years ago.


[quote]

Without a solid theoretical foundation behing it, or a well documented set of experiments that can be reproduced by independent scientific teams, it is just what I called it. Pseudo science. Cold fusion comes to mind.

Wrong again. Study phonons.

You haven't produced one shred of data or experimental evidence that has been corroborated by others under controlled conditions, to qualify it as science

You stand correct. I better not present this.
I know nothing. I thought I did.
I am learning it again.

[hung]

If you don't agree that's it's ideomotor effect, then what do you believe?

If the term 'I know' may be somewhat offensive, then I might use 'I believe'.
It's our body's electromagnetic pattern which emanates in vortex like emissions in this case from our hands. Our chakras have the same vortex behavior.
You may say we are a kind of a resonating bio coil. It's all frequencies after all. You can't imagine how frequencies rule this universe.

But this is another story.
Good night gentlemen.