Mineoro 2-Box -- 492 feet range?

[Morgan]

Orange wire

Hi,
was hard work... but I think there's about everything apart some minor mistakes that are:

- there is an ORANGE wire at PCB3 (on supply rail) that must bind to PCB2: problem is that I cannot see any ORANGE wire that goes to PCB3 starting from PCB2; on PCB2 there are other ORANGE wires but not the one I mean:
this require a little check on that wire

- value of Sens-pot is still unknown so I've putted label but not value there: Morgan have to measure it or read value on case of it

- there's a 3 positions switch (I've called it SW2) that we don't know really how it switch wires: I've supposed a kind of connection but will be better checking that by Morgan with a multimeter
Hello
this orange wire come from PCB 3 to BARRA 2E.

- I intentionally leaved out details on coils, cause I haven't suitable data

then can be , of course, other little mistakes...

Anyway, here it is, ugly but about right : as you can see it's much more simple now than with "BARS".

Kind regards,
Max

Hello
This orange wire come from PCB 3 to BARRA 2E...

[Qiaozhi]

Hello
This orange wire come from PCB 3 to BARRA 2E...

Hi Morgan,

How about the 3-position switch? Is this available for the operator to change the switch position, or is it inside the case?

[detectoman]

hello max

very good work pretty effort, electronic efficient man
my congratulations

detectoman

[Morgan]

3 position switch

Could be either, but Esteban says it's 2. Anyway, this is an easy to experiment to perform.


I agree with Fred. This is a passive receiver like the Gold Gun.


Personally I do not think there are any active components in the round box. Have a look at the connections. Apart from the yellow and red wires - which I've already shown to be connected to at least one coil (the PI TX) - all the other wires have a series capacitor. So where is the power supply? We must wait until Morgan has completed the connectivity measurements. This should be very revealing.


Actually, I think it's the other way round. Why is the ferrite circuit not overloaded by the 92V pulsed output? Have you considered that there may be some shielding at the rear of the round box to limit the RF field in the direction of the operator. If not, then this device will detect objects behind as well as in front. I remember asking Esteban this question some time ago, and he said that there is some shielding in these devices.


Agreed. Although this device is a type of PI running at 400Hz.


Yes - I had already noted this. There are 3 positions:

1. Connects power supply to ferrite circuit. This is probably the main setting.
2. Disables ferrite circuit. This implies that there is a another receiver coil in the round box, and the ferrite circuit is secondary passive receiver(aka Gold Gun).
3. Disables pulsed output as well as ferrite circuit.

I hadn't thought about this before. But - is this switch inside the device, or accessible by the operator from the outside. If so, then this may be part of the setup procedure.

Morgan - any comments?

Hello
About the 3 position switch,the owner dont tel me nothing. He put the device in my hands because he know i like to experimente devices performance,unfortunly i must return it very soon.Anyway i have hope to build a replica for me.
After take measurments of Antenna and ferrite,my job finish with Pistoldetektor,here. The fact that some people acuse me to put B.S. in this Forum makes me very sad,so i´m considering if i put public or not, the next measurments or X-ray of the Antenna.If i decide not put here,dont worry you will receive them by E-mail,and maybe more than you expect,of course Fred and Max also,because we are a team...

Happy Chrystmas

[Morgan]

Device only detect at long distance in one of the 3 positions.

[Qiaozhi]

Hello
About the 3 position switch,the owner dont tel me nothing. He put the device in my hands because he know i like to experimente devices performance,unfortunly i must return it very soon.Anyway i have hope to build a replica for me.
After take measurments of Antenna and ferrite,my job finish with Pistoldetektor,here. The fact that some people acuse me to put B.S. in this Forum makes me very sad,so i´m considering if i put public or not, the next measurments or X-ray of the Antenna.If i decide not put here,dont worry you will receive them by E-mail,and maybe more than you expect,of course Fred and Max also,because we are a team...

Happy Chrystmas

Hi Morgan,

Neither myself, Max or Fred think you are posting BS. I believe you are posting honest test results, and I personally thank you for all your hard work.

I'm still no sure about the switch though. When you put the cover back on the detector, is the switch now inside, or can the user still change the switch position from the outside. Or to put it another way - is the switch available to the user, like the sensitivity control?

Have a great Christmas!

[Morgan]

switch

Hi Morgan,

How about the 3-position switch? Is this available for the operator to change the switch position, or is it inside the case?

Hello
On the top of the box there is the 3 position switch. I only get far away signals in one of this positions,the others i don´t know,i experienced nothing with the other 2 positions.I remember the owner told me about switch in one position this device only find precious metals,the other position most of non ferrous metals...I allways use in non ferrous.
The device also as 3 colour led´s ,the yellow open when device beeps,the red when device switch on or off and maybe inform low battery,and finaly the green must stay open,it means device is extremly sensitive when green led its open.I experienced also,when i put ferrous medium size objet near antenna,this green light disapear...And no beep...

Kind regards

[detectoman]

hello morgan
congratulations for your big effort
please send me your messures and ray x photo
narm5@hotmail.com

thanks adviced
detectoman mexico

[Morgan]

The switch its outside,of course.

[J_Player]

There is not logic. You can't post a bmp more than 19.5 Kb.

The file of the film is near 8 Mb, so is impossible to post here. No want to put in mytemdir.com

Hi Esteban.
The logic of limiting file size in this forum is to save bandwidth. For this reason we cannot post large mpg files. If you can put your mpg file into a zip folder, then you can email it. I can post this mpg file on a private web server with a link in this forum for people who want to download it and watch it. If you are interested in doing this, then send me a private message, and I will give you an email address to send it.

You also could post the movie on youtube and put the link in your post.

Best wishes, and Merry Christmas,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Hello
On the top of the box there is the 3 position switch. I only get far away signals in one of this positions,the others i don´t know,i experienced nothing with the other 2 positions.I remember the owner told me about switch in one position this device only find precious metals,the other position most of non ferrous metals...I allways use in non ferrous.
The device also as 3 colour led´s ,the yellow open when device beeps,the red when device switch on or off and maybe inform low battery,and finaly the green must stay open,it means device is extremly sensitive when green led its open.I experienced also,when i put ferrous medium size objet near antenna,this green light disapear...And no beep...

Kind regards

Thanks Morgan. This is useful information.

[Fred]

Hi all!

Originally Posted by Fred
Maybe there's nothing to patent... or all this stuff was already patented by Fisher in 1930 !

Actually Max posted this.

Have a look at the connections. Apart from the yellow and red wires - which I've already shown to be connected to at least one coil (the PI TX) -

The red wire is V+,when the switch is on right position.Only then the PCB2 receives supply In any other switch position the coil and PCB2 are not used..This supply could also be used for a preamp,together with the (-) white wire.
But this is really interesting to see that only a part of the detector is used each time, on the left position only PCB5 is used, on the right PCB2.And is pos 3 nothing.(?)

Hello
The device also as 3 colour led´s ,the yellow open when device beeps,the red when device switch on or off and maybe inform low battery,and finaly the green must stay open,it means device is extremly sensitive when green led its open.I experienced also,when i put ferrous medium size objet near antenna,this green light disapear...And no beep...Kind regards

Yes,interesting!
Regards,
Fred.

[Max]

Hi all,
first of all thanks to Morgan for the useful informations about wire and led functions/purposes: yes I guessed that one is for battery, one for good "tuning" (green) and one for target indication (orange) that light up when buzzer start working ...cause are in parallel.

I've checked the Orange wire and I see now just one Orange wire from PCB3 that goes to BARRA:2 POSITION:E (2E) ; this was a mistake on reverse engineering.

The circuit schematic contains already the orange to 2E connection (that actually drive the green LED by PCB3 circuitry) so there's no need of mod it.

The green led is driven by circuit3 output and circuit5 output when it has supply voltage (just one position of 3 pos switch).

About circuit5 working... yes Fred and Qiaozhi are right on its passive nature (just receiver) ; I made mistake cause was thinking at some oscillator with series LC and other things but I missed that there isn't any feedback from amplifier transistor BC548 ! dang !
That could only mean there is just amplification of signal coming from coil(s) on...ferrite sticks. Now we have to guess its meaning in this circuit... and make some theory.

About supply wires for round container they are : RED wire (the one that binds to the 22R resistor) that is positive supply (+9V) and the "wire of shield" (that actually if the shield braid of cable that goes to round container) so GND connection. Other interesting wire is BLUE that is kinda of feedback for stabilizing (I think the whole receiver/amplifier of container and PCB2 in relation to temperature of components at PCB3 by the 3K9 carbon resistor).

The effect of resistance variation could be a cutoff filter frequency variation, with related amplitude rise/fall at sum node near (supposed) premp inside the container; the effect signal is applied to the base of first transistor of circuit 2... and enter by a RC filter for probably similar reasons.

Other wire is WHITE that I think output of round container amplifier.

The YELLOW wire is probably another feedback but for different purposes ???

Anyway...

Then (but its a very wild guess) the two parallel of capacitors (1N//6n remember me somehow some Wien bridge configuration: what do you think about... ?

Ops... I'm late... see you later !

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

This is the pistol in Morgan's hands.

Press free and get with the code:

http://rapidshare.com/files/78960653/Field_test_Esteban_LRL.MPG.html

Merry Christmas

[Max]

Hi all,
I'm thinking at purpose of passive receiver on device... and got a strange idea. Let me know what do you think about.

Ok... Let's make some assumptions:

from what we know of these devices (Esteban and others descriptions) we can say that the use of device like this is for expert people cause need special care about e.g. orientation.

- my theory is that device suffer from Earth magnetic field interaction
- so must be a way to know, in open environment like an open flat field with no reference points, if you are using device right... I mean with right orientation

I think purpose of passive RF receiver is just signaling (when supply present) if device is right orientated or not and what's quality of ignoring of e.g. Earth magnetic field.

Now we know Earth magnetic field has North-South component and the normal to surface component as well: for me these 2 must be ignored by device, and that could be done just using device parallel to soil and with East-West or West-East walking of operator: AM I RIGHT ABOUT THIS PROCEDURE ?

Now come back to our problem of passive receiver:
We have a passive probably MW-LW AM receiver that drive a green led, right ?

- How it can be used as I've indicated above to signal minimum influence of Earth magnetic field ???

- Ferrite is directive , so antenna coils of receiver are directive. Box is made of wood so entering signals RF components are not altered by e.g. other magnetic material deviation right ?

Suppose you have now 2 ferrite sticks you can vary the gap between to vary magnetic coupling , so inductance of coil. Didn't you noticed anything ?

If L vary you can actually tune an LC circuit to a particular frequency just varying the gap extension.

Now suppose the device is tuned that way:
- suppose you make ferrites orientation perfectly east-west
- suppose there is a known strong emission, a powerful radio station, on a particular frequency and you know it's located far east or far west from you
- suppose you can tune that particular radio station, cause of device construction, just adjusting the gap between ferrites
- once tuned receiver will pick up AM modulated signal from that far east or west radio station and signal its presence by the green led on

Then now...
- suppose you rotate device e.g. north-south , so ferrites also that are inside, what happens ?
Will the magnetic Earth field component null your tuning ? I think so.
- suppose you rotate device again east-west but tilting it pointing downguard to soil of e.g. 10° . Will that modify, again, your perfect tuning ? Again, I think so...

If my theory is right, the passive receiver act as a compass to signal when device is correctly oriented in the space, thus when Earth magnetic field is ignored (minimized) , so:
- when device is parallel to soil (perpendicular to normal component of Earth mag field)
- and when device is pointed east-west or west-east perfectly

What do you think of that theory?

Kind regards,
Max