Alonso PD modification

[Geo]

I think you are completely wrong, and the rods move as a result of muscles in the arms and hands of the person holding the rods. But it is easy to check to see if you are right or wrong.
You can get a person who is successfull at dowsing, and then take their rod and put it in a non-metal clamp attached to a non-metal table or tripod, and adjust it so it is in perfect balance. Then let them walk to the rod and put their hand on it while the clamp prevents it from tilting on its axis. While the dowser has his hand on the rod, you can have him look behind while you wave a piece of gold or silver back and forth at the rod. Or you can put the metal on the ground in front of the rod to see if it swings toward the treasure as it did when he was using the rod that was not prevented from moving on its axis.

You could even perform this test without a clamp, by letting a dowser show you how he can find a ring lying on a table or the ground. Then you hide the ring somewhere in close distance and let him show you how the rod still swings toward the hidden ring every time, same as when he saw it lying on the ground.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi J_P.
Did you saw any real dowsing man???
I think NO!!!!

Regards

[Funfinder]

Do you sometimes feel like you are searching for gold at the end of a rainbow?

There is not the end of the rainbow, there are two ends, so which one do you mean?

No I don't feel this way, but I hope sometimes I'll find really serious and usable LRL information, even on my own.

btw. if you have drawn the circuit diagram of the Alonso PD did you also build it and with what results? Same like Geo and Morgan?

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.
Did you saw any real dowsing man???
I think NO!!!!

Regards

Yes, I have seen real dowsing. If you are sure it works, then maybe you also can try the experiment I described to see how the dowser finds the gold ring that he does not know the location of.

Best wishes
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

btw. if you have drawn the circuit diagram of the Alonso PD did you also build it and with what results? Same like Geo and Morgan?

I was wondering when someone would comment on that.

During the back-engineering of Alonso's PD there were several people involved, and yes ... I drew the final schematic. There were a few clones built of the device, but I do not believe that any of them were able to detect at long distance. Many of the cloners are still experimenting, so you will have to ask them if there were any positive results.

The TR part of the design is a direct copy of a Heathkit GD348, but with a smaller coil. The most interesting part is the ferrite circuit and its interaction with the omega coil. How this is supposed to provide any long-range detection is anybody's guess, but you are welcome to try for yourself.

[Geo]

Yes, I have seen real dowsing. If you are sure it works, then maybe you also can try the experiment I described to see how the dowser finds the gold ring that he does not know the location of.

Best wishes
J_P

Hi J_P.

Now you don't speak as J_P!!!!
What is happening with you??? Do you really believe that a dowser can't find the ring???? I made this test (with gold coin in the place of the ring) many times with 100% success. I wrote it many times...... i am a medium range dowser, not as my teacher!!!!. He finds coins from very long distance. One time he located some coins from inside the car and told us to go back side of a mountain because there was something. We went there and we found some silver and copper coins. Distance.... was about 2KM far.
YES... this is the reason that i wrote that maybe you have not see a really dowser.

Regards

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.

Now you don't speak as J_P!!!!
What is happening with you??? Do you really believe that a dowser can't find the ring???? I made this test (with gold coin in the place of the ring) many times with 100% success. I wrote it many times...... i am a medium range dowser, not as my teacher!!!!. He finds coins from very long distance. One time he located some coins from inside the car and told us to go back side of a mountain because there was something. We went there and we found some silver and copper coins. Distance.... was about 2KM far.
YES... this is the reason that i wrote that maybe you have not see a really dowser.

Regards

Hi Geo,
But I have seen a dowser. I saw some amazing dowsing performance. But I have not seen the dowser find hidden gold that he does not know the location of. So I cannot say I know he can find hidden gold.

I am sure you can find hidden gold as you say. But this is not something I can truthfully say I have seen. I have only seen your writing about it. When I see it with my own eyes, then I will know for sure, same as you knew for sure what the PD does when you visited Morgan to see with your own eyes.

Here is something you can try that may show how dowsing working without making a live demonstration. Take a look here at Gaucho's treasure map and see if you can map dowse the treasure. http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...&postcount=143
I know you are not a map dowser, but maybe you have abilities you are not aware of. who knows?
You can give it a try, then wait to see where Gaucho finds the treasure. Maybe you are good at it and you don't even know.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Hi Geo,
But I have seen a dowser. I saw some amazing dowsing performance. But I have not seen the dowser find hidden gold that he does not know the location of.
So you have not see a real dowser

So I cannot say I know he can find hidden gold.

I am sure you can find hidden gold as you say. But this is not something I can truthfully say I have seen. I have only seen your writing about it. When I see it with my own eyes, then I will know for sure, same as you knew for sure what the PD does when you visited Morgan to see with your own eyes.

You never saw a atom bomb, but you believe to it.... or nor???

Here is something you can try that may show how dowsing working without making a live demonstration. Take a look here at Gaucho's treasure map and see if you can map dowse the treasure. http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...&postcount=143
I know you are not a map dowser, but maybe you have abilities you are not aware of. who knows?
You can give it a try, then wait to see where Gaucho finds the treasure. Maybe you are good at it and you don't even know.

My friend, i don't need all these tests. I know what is happening.
Try to learn how to work with the Lrods and you will see that you will not need all these tests. Really!!!!

Best wishes,
J_P

My Regards

[J_Player]

Hi Geo,
But I have seen a dowser. I saw some amazing dowsing performance. But I have not seen the dowser find hidden gold that he does not know the location of.
So you have not see a real dowser

Hi Geo,
You don't understand. This dowser told me he is a real dowser who finds gold nuggets in the hills. He showed me a handful of gold nuggets he found. But I was only visiting him in his house, so I took one of his gold nuggets and put it on the floor. He walked over the nugget, and his rods crossed. Should you say he is not a real dowser only because you did not see him find gold nuggets in the hills? This is the same as me saying you are not a real dowser because I did not see you find gold nuggets in the hills. How can you know if he is a real dowser if all you have is stories I tell and he tells?

I say he is a real dowser because he says he finds unknown gold, just as all real dowsers say they find unknown gold. But I cannot say I am certain, because I never saw him find hidden gold. Only a person who sees it working can say they know for sure.

This is the same as you believed Morgan's PD would find gold, but you were not sure until you saw it with your own eyes, and heard the beeping from 2 meters. After seeing, then you were sure ... not simply hearing the story and thinking it can be true.

So the correct answer is you do not know if I saw a real dowser or not. You cannot be certain if he can really locate hidden gold or not unless you watch what he does in the hills with your own eyes. Maybe he is a real dowser, and maybe not. And same for me. I cannot be sure unless I see him find the hidden gold. I only say he is a real dowser because he says he is a real dowser, and because he showed me nuggets he found from dowsing, same as you say you are a real dowser who finds hidden metal.

The atom bomb also I cannot know for certain. I can only rely on the historical fact that Japan surrendered after receiveing two atom bombs, and a war was ended shortly afterward. And I see a lot of photos of two entire cities destroyed by what looks like a single bomb blast. But still, I am not 100% sure from watching my body become vaporized from an atom bomb.

My friend, i don't need all these tests. I know what is happening.
Try to learn how to work with the Lrods and you will see that you will not need all these tests. Really!!!!

Of course you don't need these tests. You can see with your own eyes and watch the rods in your own hands. The people who like to see these tests are people who have not seen like me and many others who have not seen a dowser find hidden gold or other things. When we see the same as you see, then we can believe the same as you believe.

I have already tried the rods, and I have never gotten any response. Maybe I am not biologically equipped to get response from dowsing. I only know or certain what I saw, not what other people saw. So far, I never watched anyone find hidden gold with dowsing rods. This does not mean it is not possible. It means I did not see it. This is a fact -- I cannot pretend that I saw a dowser find hidden gold when I did not.

Maybe now you can understand why some people will not say they are sure dowsing works until they see it work like you.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Hi Geo,

I have already tried the rods, and I have never gotten any response. Maybe I am not biologically equipped to get response from dowsing.
Best wishes,

J_P

Hi J_P.
I had the same problem for many years until my friend (teacher) teach me. After it the Lrods worked very easy.
Now about all the other (for real dowser)..... i stop them because i am afraid that we will make this thread the same with Mineoro...

Regards

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.
I had the same problem for many years until my friend (teacher) teach me. After it the Lrods worked very easy.
Now about all the other (for real dowser)..... i stop them because i am afraid that we will make this thread the same with Mineoro...

Regards

Exactly!
After you saw it work with your own eyes, then you had a change of mind. I think this change of mind does not happen except for people who see with their own eyes.

We also see many people who are fake dowsers and cannot find treasures. The only way you can tell who is successful at finding treasures is to watch to see what they do. If you see them find treasures that they do not know the location of every time, then you can more easily believe it is not a fake dowser.

For me, I have no opinion about whether dowsing can work or not. I will believe when I see evidence that convinces me.

I don't think that ideamotor is the principle of dowsing except for some people who have a tendency to cause the rods to point where they think the treasure is. For myself, ideamotor principle has never worked. Not even when I can see the treasure. So I have personal experience that ideamotor does not work for me. If you are finding unknown treasures every time, then I think this cannot be ideamotor principles, but something different. What different principle? I don't know, and will not know until I have a chance to observe for myself and conduct some tests to see if I can identify what principle causes detection every time. But then I never saw a dowser find unknown treasure... not even one time.

So I can say nothing about how dowsing works or does not work.
All I can say is all dowsers who say they are real dowsers have refused to show their dowsing abilities in a test. Read the forums and see for yourself. It is true.
They only talk about how they can really dowse. But they never let skeptical people make tests to prove it is true.

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

So I can say nothing about how dowsing works or does not work.

For Geo his dowsing art evidently does not work.

To this day he cannot find nothing by his dovsing rod (read his posts back).

His "teacher" (if even exist) is only a little cheater or entertainer at the expense of fools like Geo.

Everything else is just a matter of religion and not dowsing art.

Typical for belivers is that: "My friend, i don't need all these tests.", because tests can destroy his religion which is unacceptable for all believers.

So believers fight hard to defend his religion - the only treasure which has remained.

[Geo]

For Geo his dowsing art evidently does not work.

To this day he cannot find nothing by his dovsing rod (read his posts back).

His "teacher" (if even exist) is only a little cheater or entertainer at the expense of fools like Geo.

I will stay only on this.
You are the clever and we are the fools!!!!
Thank you!!!!
I close this discussion

[J_Player]

For Geo his dowsing art evidently does not work.

To this day he cannot find nothing by his dovsing rod (read his posts back).

His "teacher" (if even exist) is only a little cheater or entertainer at the expense of fools like Geo.

Everything else is just a matter of religion and not dowsing art.

Typical for belivers is that: "My friend, i don't need all these tests.", because tests can destroy his religion which is unacceptable for all believers.

So believers fight hard to defend his religion - the only treasure which has remained.

I have seen no first hand evidence that Geo's dowsing works or not works. Therefore, I have no opinion about whether it does or not. But you have said he cannot find nothing. Is your statement based on observations of Geo dowsing?
Or do you say this because you presume your conclusions are true without testing his dowsing to know for sure what you are talking about?

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

I will stay only on this.
You are the clever and we are the fools!!!!
Thank you!!!!
I close this discussion

Easiest way is to close discussion, more difficult is to argue something.

Those "fools" was only to challenge you to go on a real test, not to insult you, so stay calm.

I highly respect your knowledge and experience in field of electronic, but cannot respect your naivety in field of dowsing and "dowsing teacher" especially.

Or do you say this because you presume your conclusions are true without testing his dowsing to know for sure what you are talking about?

Dear J_P, I will be glad to answer this question after read your test report on Ranger-Tell Examiner.

[J_Player]

Easiest way is to close discussion, more difficult is to argue something.

From your reply, I can see you would rather not talk about how you determined that Geo never found anything by his dowsing method. How strange... You posted your statement that Geo "can find nothing", but you do not want to say how you know that is factual information!

I highly respect your knowledge and experience in field of electronic, but cannot respect your naivety in field of dowsing and "dowsing teacher" especially.

Thank you for your high respect. You are correct. I have no experience with dowsing teachers except what I read on Dell Winders Web page that tells me to dowse a water hose. I tried it and it did not work for me. But I never met Geo's dowsing teacher, so I cannot know if his teaching can show me how to dowse. It is very possible that there is no dowsing teacher who can teach me how to dowse. And it is also possible that a dowsing teacher can teach me how to dowse. However, I don't know the answer because I never met a live dowsing teacher. So I can only say I don't know. And your are correct, I am naive about dowsing because I know nothing about it.

Dear J_P, I will be glad to answer this question after read your test report on Ranger-Tell Examiner.

Ok, That sounds fair. I will give a test report on the Rangertell Examiner. But I also expect to hear an equally well-written and revealing answer about how you determined that Geo never found nothing when dowsing.
By this, I mean you will explain how you found proof beyond reading words in a forum, and actually performed tests on Geo's performance with dowsing rods to determine that he found nothing.

Remember, I am trusting that you are a person of your word to give an equally well documented test report. So here is my preliminary test report for the Rangertell Examiner:

My Examiner test report:
I received the replacement Rangertell Examiner many months ago.
I unpacked it and photographed it, then I posted my photos here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...&postcount=637
I also made a number of posts where I invited anyone who is interested to come and try it out to see what kind of detection they can find.
During the weeks after the new Deluxe model Examiner arrived, I performed a number of tests to see how well it detects hidden gold objects, and also a few other objects that it is intended to detect. The result was that I got no response at all. Not a treasure response or non-treasure response. I also tried this with a gold ring buried 2 inches in the ground where I knew the location of the ring, and got no response at all.
At this time I concluded that I got no response from hidden targets, or from known targets. This made me think the ideamotor response was not working for me, and non-ideamotor response was also not working for me. I wondered why not. After reading a lot of Rangertell literature and reading a lot of skeptic posts and LRL enthusiast posts in Geotech, I thought there are only three likely possibilities that I know of:
1). I am biologically impaired due to nerve damage in my right arm that prevents the Examiner from working.
2). I am holding a defective Examiner.
3). The Examiner doesn't work for finding hidden metals.

But I had no way to test to see what is the answer if I am the only person performing a test. So I made more posts in the Geotech forum. I invited others to try out the Examiner and see if it works for them whenever I had a chance. But nobody responded... not even the members I know live in the area,
Next, I called nearby acquaintances who were willing to try it out. We did the same experiments I tried, burying a gold ring 2 inches under the ground where they knew the location, and also repeated the test when they did not know the location. The results showed that nobody was able to reliably detect the location of the unknown gold location. In cases where the person holding the Deluxe Examiner knew the location of the gold, I saw they found a good response, maybe up to 1/3 of the time on average. (Note: this is different than the response I got when I knew the location of the buried ring. I got no good response at all).

These were preliminary tests to see what the Deluxe Examiner does. I did not perform a scientific test, because the preliminary tests showed that I could not establish a base line to use as a control that is necessary for a scientific test. What this all means in layman's language is the Examiner I tried did not perform well enough to qualify for a scientific test.

After seeing the results I got up to this point, I figured my best hope of seeing some good performance would be to find someone who is experienced with the examiner to demonstrate it working and to show the correct technique to use it. So I made more posts in the Geotech forum, and sent emails to forum owners to see if there was anyone interested in demonstrating the Examiner working. Again, I found nobody was interested.

At this point, I figured there would be nobody to show me it working in the field. But there are still more tests I can conduct. I can run electronic tests, and compare the signals I read to the signals I recorded from the previous Examiner TG model (These two models are identical, except the Deluxe model has an extra ground probe).

So I ran some simple electronic tests. I found that the Rangertell claim that the calculator sends out a signal is true. I measured the signal from the calculator and I took photos of the waveform from an oscilloscope. I also measured these same signals transferred to the internal parts of the Examiner, which I measured with a probe on the antenna, and on the metal rod at the center of the handle. This made me think the weak signal coming from the calculator was being transferred to the internal circuitry of the Examiner. Of course, I could lie and pretend I did not see any calculator signal in the calculator, but I won't do that. The fact is The calculator signal can be seen by connecting an oscilloscope to the Examiner antenna and the ground to the metal support for the handle.

I also noticed the calculator signal from the Deluxe Examiner was noticeably weaker than the signal I photographed from the TG model, I wondered why. When I looked closer, it became apparent the TG model uses a two cell battery that produces about 3 volts, while the Deluxe model uses a solar panel for power that delivers about half the voltage. This seemed to answer the question why the weaker signal. But It made me wonder: Wouldn't the Deluxe model be expected to have a stronger calculator signal? I don't know the answer to that. I suppose the extra functions, and the fact the Deluxe model has a calculator that does not auto-shut off every few minutes is the reason it uses the TI calculator, even if it sends a weaker signal.

Next, I began measuring signals from the ground probe. This is a plastic box with a metal rod you push in the ground, and connect the attached audio cable to your laptop computer. I connected it to my home desktop computer and ran a long extension cable to the back yard where I stuck the probe in the ground. I took a Fluke digital voltmeter to check what was coming out of this probe. Keep in mind, there is an audio tone generator application included with the Deluxe Examiner to install in your computer that will send an audio tone out to the probe from your speaker jack on the computer. So I installed this audio tone generator on my home PC so I could select a frequency 0-20Khz, and loudness level up to the limit of the computer sound amplifier. Then I checked to see what was coming out. The oscilloscope photos showed I was getting a good sine wave from the speaker jack that responded perfectly to frequency adjustments I made at the keyboard and mouse. The meter also showed the frequency and amplitude were responding perfectly. So I made tests by pushing a stiff copper wire about an inch in the ground near the Examiner probe. I was able to detect the same audio frequency up to several inches depending on the soil moisture content. In dry soil, I could detect nothing at 2 inches away from the ground probe, but in saturated wet soil I got a clear signal that diminished with distance. I could detect no signal at 1 foot distance from the ground probe in wet soil. (Keep in mind this is not a scientific test, as I did not send a sample of this soil to a laboratory for analysis to determine the soil constituents, or the exact moisture content, or the compaction ratio of the soil sample where the probe was placed).

Next I made a number of tests where I buried a gold ring 2 inches in the ground at various locations in relation to the ground probe. I then used instruments to detect any signal in a line between the ground probe and the buried ring. I took measurements in the air, as well as by pushing a stiff copper wire in the ground. I sampled locations in the ground and the air in the direct line between the probe and buried ring, and I also took samples away from that line to see what differences I could find.

But wait.... Now I am drifting off onto signal lines. I already made my report on the the Examiner testing!
And that is the report you said you wanted to read before you give your answer to my question about what test of Geo's dowsing performance you conducted.
So let's hear what you have to report about your testing of Geo's dowsing abilities.

Best wishes,
J_P