Alonso PD modification

[WM6]

Hi J_P

Regarding your 1. quote:
It was posted to Geo, but anyway. You need to read my first statement (post #56) again:

»To this day he cannot find nothing by his dovsing rod (read his posts back).«

Can you see this: »read his posts back« (Geo posted over 2500 posts)? Geo is, according his own words, in searching for a big »known« treasure buried on aproksimately known location. He stated in his posts, not only once, that he cannot find by his different dowsing apparatus (not only by D-rod, but by mineoro like too) nothing worth. No big treasure: not from vicinity - nor from remote distance. Not even small real treasure. Nothing. I simply summarize his own statements.

His dowsing guru teacher do so the same: nothing (except findings buried by his own, to show to naive what guru can). My claim. I am willing to prove this claim if his teacher are willing to undergone real test of his dowsing capabilities. Here is my ofer to those dowsing guru, if he win real test: 1000 euro in duty free cash + gold target + my excuse. I am prepared to carry out such test under fully controled condition, mean at first on my terrain (essential to prevent tricks). Waiting for guru answer.

Regarding your 2. quote:

It was addressed only to Geo (again: read again), but there is no problem to say, that I highly respect your extraordinary knowledge too, sincerely (!), but I do not respect surfactants way on how you test RangerTells crappy and expensive toy.

Regarding your 3. quote:

Nice! I am waiting respectfully on your Examiner final Test report (maybe better to say: we all are waiting).

Best wishes to you too

[J_Player]

Hi J_P

Regarding your 1. quote:
It was posted to Geo, but anyway. You need to read my first statement (post #56) again:

»To this day he cannot find nothing by his dovsing rod (read his posts back).«

Can you see this: »read his posts back«? Geo is, according his own words, in searching for a big »known« treasure buried on aproksimately known location. He stated in his posts, not only once, that he cannot find by his different dowsing apparatus (not only by D-rod, but by mineoro like too) nothing worth. No big treasure: not from vicinity - nor from remote distance. I simply summarize his own statements.

Regarding your 2. quote:

It was addressed only to Geo (again: read again), but there is no problem to say, that I highly respect your extraordinary knowledge too, sincerely (!), but I do not respect surfactants way on how you test RangerTells crappy and expensive toy.

Regarding your 3. quote:

Nice! I am waiting respectfully on your Examiner final Test report (maybe better to say: we all are waiting).

Best wishes to you too

What is this?
The WM6 tap dance to disguise the fact that you conducted no tests at all to support your claims about Geo's dowsing?



All you have is hearsay evidence that you read in the forum, and no real testing?

And you want to pass this off as skeptical facts?

You are an experienced and talented electronic experimenter, capable of building excellent circuity and equipment that works according to the principles of real science. Furthermore, you are knowledgeable of many obscure details of applied RF propagation which few treasure hunters have any clue of. This alone makes classifies you to be better qualified than most of us for building certain types of RF detection equipment.

But then we look at your unfounded claims of what you determine to be facts about non-electronic topics, and we see you have discarded all the disciplines that are required to achieve the excellence you have attained in the sciences. How is it that you are satisfied to accept forum posts to be facts without first checking to see if your what you are posting for the world to read are indeed facts, or simply something you read?

Aren't you using the same method that LRL lovers use to determine they have the correct idea? You simply read your selectively filtered assortment of forum posts and movie segments, then post it to be the truth, without checking it to see for yourself if it is true or not. Then you post it to be a fact?

Did you ever consider that there are some skeptics who are sincere, and do not want to be associated with people who make statements as facts which have not been checked to determine if the source is factual or not?

We see some LRL enthusiasts make claims that model X LRL really finds treasure because the great guru of LRL says it does. And model Y does not work as well because his cousin says it does not. What does this mean? NOTHING!!

It is a bunch of hearsay stuff they read in some forum or email and want us to believe. The stuff you are passing off as facts is the same hearsay BS that you never tested for yourself to see if it is right or not. If you want to make posts to say Geo never found nothing, then go visit Geo, and watch what he does so you can see with your own eyes that he finds nothing. Then you will have a good basis to say he finds nothing because you will know from watching him instead of reading some forum posts where one occasion or more he made some post that helps to illustrate the propaganda that you are posting as if it were a fact rather than something you actually know.

There are some people who are skeptical of LRLs and dowsing who do not want to be associated with people who publish their opinions as if they are facts, when all they really have to back up their claim is some forum posts they read.

It is nice that you are waiting respectfully on my Examiner final Test report. But after seeing what you have to offer to support how you know Geo "never found nothing", I feel like I got cheated. It looks to me like you never ran any test at all on the performance of Geo's dowsing performance. So I got burned for thinking you would produce something substantial besides forum posts you read. No big deal.

I have already published a lot of more information on the Examiner than you can read in the Geotech forum. The testing is not complete yet, and there are two more test phases coming that involve people all over the world. I will publish the results here when I feel it is an appropriate time. But don't ever try to trick me into trading my testing results for what you do to determine "facts", because that trick won't work a second time.

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

Hi J_P

I repeat sentence falling out of your citation, fo possible blindness of blind believers:

"His dowsing guru teacher do so the same: nothing (except findings buried by his own, to show to naive what guru can). My claim. I am willing to prove this claim if his teacher are willing to undergone real test of his dowsing capabilities. Here is my ofer to those dowsing guru, if he win real test: 1000 euro in duty free cash + gold target + my excuse. I am prepared to carry out such test under fully controled condition, mean at first on my terrain (essential to prevent tricks). Waiting for guru answer."

[J_Player]

Hi J_P

I repeat sentence falling out of your citation, fo possible blindness of blind believers:

"His dowsing guru teacher do so the same: nothing (except findings buried by his own, to show to naive what guru can). My claim. I am willing to prove this claim if his teacher are willing to undergone real test of his dowsing capabilities. Here is my ofer to those dowsing guru, if he win real test: 1000 euro in duty free cash + gold target + my excuse. I am prepared to carry out such test under fully controled condition, mean at first on my terrain (essential to prevent tricks). Waiting for guru answer."

An offer to conduct a test is in no way the same as providing test data to substantiate a claim. It is an indication that you may not have any test data. Considering the condition where you have no test data, this seems like a good approach to get some data. I have made several similar offers, but without any cash prizes for years. I also found that nobody was interested in demonstrating a long range locator recovering treasure in tests where skeptical witnesses are watching.

Your test has a 1000 euro prize, which makes it attractive to people who really can dowse. If I was convinced that I am a good dowser and not very far distance from your test ground, I would be interested in getting an extra 1000 euros to help pay for a new PulseStar detector. But I would also want to bring some friends to watch the test and make videos to be sure there are no tricks, and to verify what happens during the test. If those conditions existed, then I would be happy to win 1000 euros for demonstrating how I can dowse (which I can't).

In Geo's case, his travel expenses would be much more than any prize money he could win. I doubt he would accept this offer because it would cost him money to make tests for you instead of stay home and spend his time treasure hunting. Maybe if you set your test ground near where Geo is located, he will consider showing you his dowsing abilities.

Keep in mind, the fact that nobody has accepted your generous test offer does not prove that you posted facts about Geo's dowsing performance.
It appears you never observed Geo's dowsing performance, and do not know what he finds and does not find. Your claims were opinions, not facts.

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

It appears you never observed Geo's dowsing performance, and do not know what he finds and does not find. Your claims were opinions, not facts.

Best wishes,
J_P

Are you blind or LRL blinded? Read again:

"Regarding your 1. quote:
It was posted to Geo, but anyway. You need to read my first statement (post #56) again:

»To this day he cannot find nothing by his dovsing rod (read his posts back).«

Can you see this: »read his posts back«? Geo is, according his own words, in searching for a big »known« treasure buried on aproksimately known location. He stated in his posts, not only once, that he cannot find by his different dowsing apparatus (not only by D-rod, but by mineoro like too) nothing worth. No big treasure: not from vicinity - nor from remote distance. I simply summarize his own statements."
-------******--------
Regarding test.
Watching and making videos are unlimited aloved (outside testing terrain to not to disturb sensistive dowser's)at least in my case. At the request of the dowser audience may be restricted too. It is about 1111 km distance by car, so one day "veni-vidi-vici" for good dowser. According my car consumption (Clio-Diesel, 80HP) of about 4l/100km, mean total about 100 euro for fuel, which I am willing to cover for winning dowser (looser travel on costs of its own). Picnic launch (prepared from me - near greek art) for three guests is free in all cases, no matter if dowsing fail or win. Fair enough?

[J_Player]

Are you blind or LRL blinded? Read again:

"Regarding your 1. quote:
It was posted to Geo, but anyway. You need to read my first statement (post #56) again:

»To this day he cannot find nothing by his dovsing rod (read his posts back).«

Can you see this: »read his posts back«? Geo is, according his own words, in searching for a big »known« treasure buried on aproksimately known location. He stated in his posts, not only once, that he cannot find by his different dowsing apparatus (not only by D-rod, but by mineoro like too) nothing worth. No big treasure: not from vicinity - nor from remote distance. I simply summarize his own statements."
-------******--------
Regarding test.
Watching and making videos are unlimited aloved (outside testing terrain to not to disturb sensistive dowser's)at least in my case. At the request of the dowser audience may be restricted too. It is about 1111 km distance by car, so one day "veni-vidi-vici" for good dowser. According my car consumption (Clio-Diesel, 80HP) of about 4l/100km, mean total about 100 euro for fuel, which I am willing to cover for winning dowser (looser travel on costs of its own). Picnic launch (prepared from me - near greek art) for three guests is free in all cases, no matter if dowsing fail or win. Fair enough?

No, I am not blinded.
You are again repeating your hearsay evidence. You want me to believe you know actual facts about Geo's dowsing performance, when all you have is selected posts you read in the forum to support your opinions. You have no facts at all, because you made no observations or tests at all for Geo's dowsing performance. Without making observations of his dowsing, you cannot possibly know the results of his dowsing. You can only read forum posts about it, and pretend this qualifies you to know the facts.

But guess what? You only selected a couple of the forum posts to establish what your idea of the facts are. Suppose you were to read more of Geo's posts. Do you think you would find any of them which are not good evidence to help you pretend you know all facts about it?

From what you showed, you never made any observation of Geo's dowsing, and have never watched to see the results of what he found or did not find. The best you can do is to look through forum posts until you find something that helps you to trick people into thinking you have some basis to make posts as if you actually know what his dowsing abilitiy is. You can scroll back, and you will see this trick won't work on me a second time. I already saw what you had to offer in trade for some real tests I conducted. This makes me wonder if you really intend to perform any actual tests of Geo's ability to dowse. How can we know you will really be there to perform tests and give prize money if he travels to your test field?

For the record, I don't believe the cost of traveling to your test field is only 100 euro. I believe there are additional costs related to loss of work if driving, airfare if flying, lodging, meals, etc. that will total more than the prize you are offering. But maybe what I believe is wrong. If this is the case, then I suggest you spend the 100 euros that you believe is the cost of traveling to go to a location near Geo and set up your test field. If you deduct your 100 euro travel cost, you will still have 900 euros remaining for prize money. Maybe Geo will be interested to try your test for 900 euro prize if the test field is near to him.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Hi!!!
I am not interesting for money!!!!!!!!!!
I will try to have free time on September, so WM6 to come here for test.
WM6 is welcome to Greece!!
I will try to communicate with my friend (teacher) and with another dowser so wm6 to see some things about dowsing.
I am not interesting to proof that dowsing is working!!! (i am sure for it).
I want to show that all who i say are true.
Also WM6 will see all my LRLs

Regards

[J_Player]

Hi!!!
I am not interesting for money!!!!!!!!!!
I will try to have free time on September, so WM6 to come here for test.
WM6 is welcome to Greece!!
I will try to communicate with my friend (teacher) and with another dowser so wm6 to see some things about dowsing.
I am not interesting to proof that dowsing is working!!! (i am sure for it).
I want to show that all who i say are true.
Also WM6 will see all my LRLs

Regards

Hi Geo,
This is really cool!

There are a lot of people who will like to see videos of you and your friends dowsing when WM6 is there to watch the demonstration.
We will be waiting to see what happens. Be sure your friends make many videos so we can see how the dowsing works.
It will be also good to see the videos that show all of your LRLs too.

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

Hi!!!
I am not interesting for money!!!!!!!!!!
I will try to have free time on September, so WM6 to come here for test.
WM6 is welcome to Greece!!
I will try to communicate with my friend (teacher) and with another dowser so wm6 to see some things about dowsing.
I am not interesting to proof that dowsing is working!!! (i am sure for it).
I want to show that all who i say are true.
Also WM6 will see all my LRLs

Regards

Interesting proposal, dear Geo.

I am not retired yet and september is otherwise out of my annual leave, but it is not excluded to obtain small additional holyday. Dowsing or not, for me it would be very interesting to meet esteemed TH colleague and excellent MD designer Geo and some of his friends.

Regarding dowsing test, Greece is not my terrain and I cannot prepare adequate field test condition to be scientifically valid. I may be present at such field test, no problem, but just as valid test can not be considered (I do not believe in tests, in which the same person hides and finds the target).

Of course I am very interested in dowsing test: like the implementation in sort of "Randy" test, and I can make all arrangements needed for such test (say 8 visually equal boxes one of those with gold target):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOsCnX-TKIY

I hope your teacher are willing to undergone such test (video inclusive).

I would wonder, if I could on the way to Greece to join our common dear friend ivconic.

[Funfinder]

@ J_Player & WM6

You forgot about the hartmann rays, the curie net and water veins.

It is very doubtful that dowsers can switch mentally from detection of water to special rays, to metal and even to lost persons.
What they are doing if it really works is called ASW or paranormal sensitive recognition. btw. most of the dowsers won't offer their services in finding metal objects but for telling you that your bed is on the wrong position because (for shure, for those who believe in this stuff...) it is directly above a water vein or an evil and sick making hartmann location! This is very practical because nobody will or can prove it!

I don't believe them - it's almost the same as Feng Shui, but this at least has some philosophical aspect.

The only real danger is if your bed or working place is very close to stong power cables because of the strong electromagnetic pulses, but even this depends on the person - there also exists alot of "radiation junkies", hanging day and night before the monitor or tv and really feeling great and energized!



btw. the PD is no dowsing device at all so we should focus back on the pure technical aspects.



> Morgan wrote

Hi Geo

This is very strange. With PD i always catch the gold and silver the same as the aluminium.
I can see the Alonso PD is something very problematic for clonage and to make balance for correct detection of precious metals,to many secrets...

Regards

What secrets? We have to bring some light into this PD if we want make improvements or understanding the whole principle behind. This cannot be so complicated!

I was wondering when someone would comment on that.

During the back-engineering of Alonso's PD there were several people involved, and yes ... I drew the final schematic. There were a few clones built of the device, but I do not believe that any of them were able to detect at long distance. Many of the cloners are still experimenting, so you will have to ask them if there were any positive results.

The TR part of the design is a direct copy of a Heathkit GD348, but with a smaller coil. The most interesting part is the ferrite circuit and its interaction with the omega coil. How this is supposed to provide any long-range detection is anybody's guess, but you are welcome to try for yourself.

Interesting answer! How long is the range of the original Heathkit GD348 and how is the range now with the ferrite?

I guess the solution is pretty simple:

The ferrite coils work as very directive magnetic pulses receiver and recognise the difference of the usual field. The heathkit circuit works as strong transmitter only - for feeding the surrounding area with electromagnet waves.

Perhaps there is some phase-shifting recognition involved for detecting special metals (or non-iron) only and the problem Geo now has with "alu only" is based on this issue.

Like those little wire searches the ferrite receiver analyses the coil inductance around 100kHz (or 60) (long wave) but does not transmit them. The 2 different windings on the ferrite seem to be used for the phase shift recognition.

What we need to know is how the magnetic pulses, coming from the radiated metal, looks like and what geografical position they have. Because we know already that the magnetic coils work perfektly accurate with minimum bearing i.e. finding very directional where the lowest radiation level is.

The omega coil also is magnetic design (as all coils) and works directional and the ferrite lies directly in a center behind it.

Because those are very near the only solution would be that one of these coils receive something if the EM-waves hit the metal or one of them changes the inductivity - but because of the large distance I guess only the ferrite antenna could be affected of this.

btw.:
Can we completly exclude there is any electrostatic involved in the PD-circuit? Someone said it uses ionic detection... whatever that means.

Did really Alonso of Mineoro did develop and invent this PD and what is the reason he never produced and offered it? 'Cause especially in Europe it seems to work much better than all of the other Mineoro devices!

[WM6]

btw. most of the dowsers won't offer their services in finding metal objects but for telling you that your bed is on the wrong position because (for shure, for those who believe in this stuff...) it is directly above a water vein or an evil and sick making hartmann location! This is very practical because nobody will or can prove it!

Funny thing is that, for any dowser, your bed shown to him will never be in the right place, but always in the wrong position.

So if you try with more dowser none of them would agree with the bed position set by its predecessor.

Even more, if, after time, other family member (who is never seen by dowser), hire the same dowser, the master move the same bed again.

Proven.

btw. the PD is no dowsing device at all so we should focus back on the pure technical aspects.

Your mobile or calculator or watch or GPS or e-compass is not dowsing device too, but can be used by dowser as hi-tech dowsing apparatus to impress naive buyers.

Simple wooden dowsing rod cannot be sold for $1.000, so fraudsters need to upgrade his snake-oil to electronic.

[hung]

Did really Alonso of Mineoro did develop and invent this PD and what is the reason he never produced and offered it? 'Cause especially in Europe it seems to work much better than all of the other Mineoro devices!

The PD was a prototype for the FG80 tyon and FG90. The PD Morgan owns still detect aluminum and other metals, altough it detects gold.

Later Alonso developed another PD which is inside the current new DCH85 with some enhancements I think. This unit only gets silver and gold.
I will be testing one in a few days. Most likely I will take it to that site in the video.

Actually the PDs including the DCH have a lower range than the FGs. The FGs have a different antenna concept and higher amplification.
This concept was developed and invented by Damasio upon Alonso's own devices. They met in 1959 and had been working eversince until Damasio's deceasing last year. Alonso now is taking care of the LRL department along with Mineoro's top engineers.

The working frequencies among the devices slightly differ, but the claim that the Mineoros do not work well in Europe is erroneous and misleading.
Just because some of the users here still have not found or dug a target identified by the device does not mean whatsoever that the detector is faulty or do not work well over there. It might mean a lot of things such as: there is no treasure where previously thought, target is too small to be precisely detected, which leads to bad ionic conditions at the location due improper time of day, weather, humidity, improper calibration, etc. and etc. and etc.
All and all it deserves further investigation. Again bear in mind that Mineoro's site features recoveries from a lot of people from different countries and regions. Just luck? I don't think so.

Tomorrow, if one of the users here happen to find a target with a Mineoro, will it mean that all of a sudden the machine started to work in Europe?

See what I mean?

[gibon]

The PD was a prototype for the FG80 tyon and FG90. The PD Morgan owns still detect aluminum and other metals, altough it detects gold.

Later Alonso developed another PD which is inside the current new DCH85 with some enhancements I think. This unit only gets silver and gold.
I will be testing one in a few days. Most likely I will take it to that site in the video.

Actually the PDs including the DCH have a lower range than the FGs. The FGs have a different antenna concept and higher amplification.
This concept was developed and invented by Damasio upon Alonso's own devices. They met in 1959 and had been working eversince until Damasio's deceasing last year. Alonso now is taking care of the LRL department along with Mineoro's top engineers.

The working frequencies among the devices slightly differ, but the claim that the Mineoros do not work well in Europe is erroneous and misleading.
Just because some of the users here still have not found or dug a target identified by the device does not mean whatsoever that the detector is faulty or do not work well over there. It might mean a lot of things such as: there is no treasure where previously thought, target is too small to be precisely detected, which leads to bad ionic conditions at the location due improper time of day, weather, humidity, improper calibration, etc. and etc. and etc.
All and all it deserves further investigation. Again bear in mind that Mineoro's site features recoveries from a lot of people from different countries and regions. Just luck? I don't think so.

Tomorrow, if one of the users here happen to find a target with a Mineoro, will it mean that all of a sudden the machine started to work in Europe?

See what I mean?

For sure you will !!

[WM6]

The working frequencies among the devices slightly differ, but the claim that the Mineoros do not work well in Europe is erroneous and misleading.

Hi Hung,

such claim (in fact excuse why mineoro craps is not working) lead source from mineoro staf itself not from user. So you dispute mineoro or yourself (as usual). Read user reports here on Geotech.

[ANDREAS]

The PD was a prototype for the FG80 tyon and FG90. The PD Morgan owns still detect aluminum and other metals, altough it detects gold................. All and all it deserves further investigation. Again bear in mind that Mineoro's site features recoveries from a lot of people from different countries and regions. Just luck? I don't think so..............
Tomorrow, if one of the users here happen to find a target with a Mineoro, will it mean that all of a sudden the machine started to work in Europe?

See what I mean?

O.K Hung. I have a PDC210 and now is ready with full mods. TV screen, can detect up 5meters distance without false signals from North-lines etc.
My house is very near Archeology area with many-many olds buried silver-gold coins. Do you want.. know if mineoro work or not? No problems
Everyday for one months morning, afternoon, night i go for tests with mineoro (distance this archeology area only 200meters for my house).
If work .. after one month we can know. This is a big test. Wait news.