Detector #2

[J_Player]

http://www.multiupload.com/H3AG7T6OWP

Yesterday finally the weather was fine so I could shoot the video. The plasticbag was hung on a bush after I rubbed it to my hair.

Detection distance is around 1m.

The unit received alot strange signals I couldn't always find out from where they came from. 300m away is a fastway and also a railroad.

But as you can hear in the second clip it also detects a helicopter. On the video it is perhaps just 400m distance, but I could hear it already much earlier - perhaps even 1-2km - directly and with the detector!

It sounds crazy, but it seems I received even some noises from a plane 3km above.

There also was nearby a very large iron object from an ex powerline-pylon fundament. I digged down 80cm a half year ago but left this solid with concrete connected stuff buried there. However, it couldn't detected.

And it made a huge difference how high I did hold the detector. 2m above the ground with reached arm the signals were "bombastic", while the border of detection are around 20-30cm above the ground.

It also made a big difference, if there were trees near or not (more near as 10meters).


Perhaps I'll publish the circuit for improvements because for now it seems not being capable detecting lta objects. But maybe there weren't just any near and iron does not working?


Actually circuit two should only became a very sensitive amp for the ferrite coil, but this still is not done yet.

I had no "concept" how those ferrites should distant detect metal so I focused on the sensitive receiver.

Well, I know how it would work, by very critical adjusted and powerful bfo - but I like to build some extra circuit for this. I guess at the moment the "pure" electrostatic detection still has to be modified.

Or the second possiblity: a long wave transmitting coil and a sensitive receiver where you can hear the frequency or modulation shift if some metal is near!!

It works already with the 100kHz wire-searcher transmitter circuit and some radio receiver but instead of the little ferrite antenna the transmitter should use a large coil. I have two of them, 1 works on 100kHz and the second with 150kHz - and the audible difference in FM reception seems better as AM.


I don't know if the mineoro detects plastic bags (I guess not!) but if there really is electrostatic involved at least it has to be even more sensitive - not only switching on or off style, but more slowly visible power or noise.

However, enjoy these absolutly authentic videos!


@ detectoman
the youtube md is IB design - it's called the "matchless detector" and completly different than mine. And the noise this homebrew makes is terrible!

Cool videos

The video of detecting the plastic bag appears to show you have detected a bag at a greater distance than most metal detector could detect a foil bag of the same size. I suppose maybe a 2-box metal detector could find the same distance or better, but few standard coil detectors can compete with that distance. Of course, the next step is to get your detector to detect a buried treasure from the same distance.

The other video with the helicopter is a bit confusing. We did not see the detector pointing toward the helicopter to show the directional properties, but we could hear some beeping that seemed to follow the acoustic sounds coming from the helicopter. Since we did not see where the detector was pointed, I am thinking it was probably in a stationary position resting on the ground, or on a table. And if it was detecting the helicopter from a distance of more than 1 Km, I am thinking it was probably not detecting the static field charge of the helicopter. So what did it detect?
Maybe stray RF in the air that had its reception interrupted by the spinning blades of the helicopter?
Maybe the internal circuit is sensitive to vibration, and the sounds are rattling the wires inside to cause beeping?
I have no clue.
Maybe time to connect the circuit to a scope and meters to see what it is actually detecting when targets are brought in proximity...

Best wishes,
J_P

[Funfinder]

Well, I know how it would work, by very critical adjusted and powerful bfo - but I like to build some extra circuit for this. I guess at the moment the "pure" electrostatic detection still has to be modified.

This is cool - look what I've found by pure coincidence:

(...)
Currently I'm about to rediscover and and redesign most sensitive BFO metal detector. Many believe that this primitive principle can not be upgraded more, but soon will be pleasantly surprised. Our Noise Induction Metal Detector is so sensitive and so discriminative that beats most complicated VLF metal detectors.
(...)

It's from mikebg -> Tech Forum -> "Beyond" TGSL

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=115901&postcount=3

I guess with very sensitive BFO that can distinguish the change of 1 or even 1/4 Hertz we have the best chance for "everytime usable LRL".



@ J_P
thx for your interrest and I will tell you some details:

I guess the size of the plastic-bag doesn't matters alot, it's the charge status. This was just a simple demo, because i rubbed it (for about 3-5 seconds) to my own hair. Assuming my body and head was already negative loaded from the ground the bag got positive charge.

But this bag discharges every time when the detector comes near by invisible ions through the air and also very slowly directly over the wooden bush that is connected directly to the ground.

the same way some sensitivity was lost while I moved the digicam closer to the detector, but not much.

btw. I missed taking my second electrostatic detector incl. 20 cm round plate with me so I could have checked the difference.


about the heli:

This was a very spontanous filming - but I did hold with my left hand the detector with plate in front into it's direction while searching where the helicopter is with the right hand and my eyes on the digicams display.

btw. I could encode the clips with divx4 fast motion so they just had around 10MB but I decided for better quality encoding 'em with xvid codec (66 meg).


AND - I forgot this to mention the last time:
I tested if it would receive the signals of the switched on coil of the Garrett Ace 250 but - absolutly nothing!

I also didn't hear the slightest AM radio broadcasting stuff.

btw. I could make the "shortcut a battery test". I don't remember exactly but some of the guys here got 1 or 3 meter "spark signals" with an 1.5v battery.

I guess those have been the motors ignition-sparks the detector received (similar like thunderstorm flashlights) because those create a strong EM pulse within a very large frequency spectrum, startin already at Very Low Frequency. You also can hear such stuff with AM radio.

Perhaps the helicopters engine iron block also works like some electrostatic antenna and radiates them to the outside.


btw. I guess the pure electrostatic load of metal - especially if buried in wet soil - is far to low for detection outside of the ground! At least with this actual circuit.

Maybe the Mineoro is sensitive enough but we don't know for shure what (if...) it really detects. For shure it doesn't detect the electrostatic load between earth and ionosphere where the metal object could act like a shield, reflector or irritator because otherwise it wouldn't detect it from a large distance. And the north-south directivity seems to has something to do with the distorted flow of the earths magnetic field.

The early units did use magnetic ferrite antennas - so this would match. Perhaps I better invent some magnetic field detector...

edit:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=89
ANDREAS @ "Alonso PD modification" wrote:
"A car run (out city) can detect up 200meters distance."

This seems to be the same like with my helicopter detection - of course because of it's extra position - even more distance.

[WM6]

This seems to be the same like with my helicopter detection - of course because of it's extra position - even more distance.

I can detect helicopter, plane or even satelite at kilometers without pistol detector or other LRL.

Go back in real world!

[Funfinder]

WM6, because of your completly ignorance and short view you just don't get the point:

This is experimenting for making experience and the success takes some time.


btw. after your completly crazy statements against Jeohunter and other serious topics NO ONE ever will take your statements for serious! With this stuff you totally destroyed / ruined your credibility concerning real scientific or electronical knowledge! You digged your own grave with your stupid comments and you get what you deserve (and perhaps want...) - laughs only!


What remains from you is a laughing number - and that fit's perfectly to your ridicolous going on and on comments and daft postings here!

Why you just don't simply let it be if you haven't nothing worthfully to say, anyway??? Do you have some deficite in attention, are you bored?

Or do you think you are the brave knight that has to fight and protect others against the evil LRL-maffia???

Too bad no one takes you serious any longer after all your completly foolish actions... - and interacting with you is just a pure waste of time!

[WM6]

btw. after your completly crazy statements against Jeohunter and other serious topics NO ONE ever will take your statements for serious!

Mine statements? I only summarize your own negative test statements about Jeohunter heavy weights-box. Results: unusable for serious TH.

[J_Player]

This is cool - look what I've found by pure coincidence:



It's from mikebg -> Tech Forum -> "Beyond" TGSL

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showpost.php?p=115901&postcount=3

I guess with very sensitive BFO that can distinguish the change of 1 or even 1/4 Hertz we have the best chance for "everytime usable LRL".



@ J_P
thx for your interrest and I will tell you some details:

I guess the size of the plastic-bag doesn't matters alot, it's the charge status. This was just a simple demo, because i rubbed it (for about 3-5 seconds) to my own hair. Assuming my body and head was already negative loaded from the ground the bag got positive charge.

But this bag discharges every time when the detector comes near by invisible ions through the air and also very slowly directly over the wooden bush that is connected directly to the ground.

the same way some sensitivity was lost while I moved the digicam closer to the detector, but not much.

btw. I missed taking my second electrostatic detector incl. 20 cm round plate with me so I could have checked the difference.


about the heli:

This was a very spontanous filming - but I did hold with my left hand the detector with plate in front into it's direction while searching where the helicopter is with the right hand and my eyes on the digicams display.

btw. I could encode the clips with divx4 fast motion so they just had around 10MB but I decided for better quality encoding 'em with xvid codec (66 meg).


AND - I forgot this to mention the last time:
I tested if it would receive the signals of the switched on coil of the Garrett Ace 250 but - absolutly nothing!

I also didn't hear the slightest AM radio broadcasting stuff.

btw. I could make the "shortcut a battery test". I don't remember exactly but some of the guys here got 1 or 3 meter "spark signals" with an 1.5v battery.

I guess those have been the motors ignition-sparks the detector received (similar like thunderstorm flashlights) because those create a strong EM pulse within a very large frequency spectrum, startin already at Very Low Frequency. You also can hear such stuff with AM radio.

Perhaps the helicopters engine iron block also works like some electrostatic antenna and radiates them to the outside.


btw. I guess the pure electrostatic load of metal - especially if buried in wet soil - is far to low for detection outside of the ground! At least with this actual circuit.

Maybe the Mineoro is sensitive enough but we don't know for shure what (if...) it really detects. For shure it doesn't detect the electrostatic load between earth and ionosphere where the metal object could act like a shield, reflector or irritator because otherwise it wouldn't detect it from a large distance. And the north-south directivity seems to has something to do with the distorted flow of the earths magnetic field.

The early units did use magnetic ferrite antennas - so this would match. Perhaps I better invent some magnetic field detector...

edit:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=89
ANDREAS @ "Alonso PD modification" wrote:
"A car run (out city) can detect up 200meters distance."

This seems to be the same like with my helicopter detection - of course because of it's extra position - even more distance.

Hi Funfinder,
You cover a lot of details. I will address them each separately:

1. If you read enough of the posts made by mikebg, you will see he is not simply another EE who is experimenting with circuits. He is brilliant for analyzing the performance of different circuit configurations, and is knowledgeable of many obscure details of electronics theory and components that can have many EEs baffled. From what I see, he is fully competent to design and teach how to design and optimize circuitry for best performance, whether simple circuits or precision circuits in noisy environments. If you can define what exact kind of signal you are trying to detect and demodulate, maybe he can help.

2. This may seem silly, but who knows?
I read many posts by Mike(Mont) and hung which indicate that your mental state (radiasthesia) is important when detecting long range. Mike(Mont) has often written about the importance of meditation to arrive at the proper mental state in order to get good results for long range detection. Since you rubbed the plastic bag in your hair, is it possible your mental state is somehow influencing the detection distance of this plastic bag? Sure it sounds silly, but think about it. If your brain is producing theta waves, these are a different frequency than alpha waves or gamma brain waves which may be emitted after meditating. You are presuming your detector is only sensing the static charge of the bag. But is it possible that brain frequencies are causing variations in the charge that is transfered from hair to plastic? Is your circuit responding to more than simple static charges? If only we knew exactly what your circuit is responding to, we would better know what it is detecting. Silly as it may seem, there exists some remote possibility that Mike(Mont) could be right.

3. Since you could not detect the Garret metal detector coil, but we heard beeps when the helicopter flew by, we can speculate about the reason by using some known circuit features in the Garret detector. The Garret Ace 250 sends a 6.5 KHz magnetic signal out through a faraday shield. We can expect mostly a magnetic field at low VLF frequency. Apparently your detector is not responsive to 6.5 KHz magnetic fields. But we hear the beeps when the helicopter flies by which are beeping at the same times we hear acoustic sounds from the helicopter blades. This makes me think that maybe your circuit is responsive to higher RF frequencies, maybe LF, MF... up to GHZ that is used for mobile phones. If your circuit detects these frequencies of RF in the air, then it is possible the helicopter blades are interrupting a strong RF signal that your circuit has detected, and the fast interruptions from the rotating blades are causing your circut to make a series of fast beeps. I also considered that maybe your circuit does not detect RF. If this is the case, then maybe your circuit responds to slight mechanical vibrations. When we look at the construction method, we see the components are soldered point-to-point, and secured by tape. And we know there is at least one component that is very sensitive to the slightest variations in signal. We know that if the conductors are permitted to move slightly, the capacitance between conductors can change slightly, and perhaps could cause a change in the signal which is being amplified. We also see the coil is glued to a large metal sheet, which could act as a vibrating plate in the presence of an acoustic vibration in the air. If it also transfers this vibration to the coil, we may see some vibrating acoustic signal transfered to the circuitry. This may be especially noticeable if the acoustic vibration is resonant with a harmonic of the natural vibration frequencies found in the plate/coil assembly. Who knows? Maybe the whole box is vibrating from the helicopter sound, and causing the wires to rattle inside and cause capacitive beeps?

4. Looking at all the unknowns in your apparatus, I consider this circuit impossible to analyze. I think the best we can do is to speculate about unknown parameters. But it still is an interesting project.
I must admit, this is the first long range aircraft detector I have seen that does not use radar, lasers, or optical methods to detect the aircraft.

Best wishes,
J_P

[rrezi]

ned help with jeohunter, please mail mc_laren_slr@hotmail.com

[Funfinder]

Mine statements? I only summarize your own negative test statements about Jeohunter heavy weights-box. Results: unusable for serious TH.

cheap excuse for condemning a very good md!


weight and size have only 5-15% importance but even this has to be incalculated if someone wants deep search.
besides: compare this with other deep mds...

explained for little children:
more depth needs more power, size and weight.
use a pinpointer if you wanna find close stuff.

it depends how much you like metal detectors (also technically seen), how enthusiastic and passionated you love treasure hunting and how much energy you invest into it - included: Muscle power while searching and: digging!

and not just sitting at home, playing theoretically with circuits and coils and making "smart" comments!

the Jeohunter is easily transportable with bike and it's backpack-suitcase and if someone doesn't climb a mountain the 2.4kg holder inclusive 36x44cm standard coil is "light" enough for a search that can take a long time, especially if you have to dig alot. this of course depends on what someone likes to find or better what he wants to dig after analyzing information / iron on or off modus, signalized depth, size of the targets location etc.


bringing up the weight as last "pseudo-argument" after
all others have been refuted is absolutly cheeeaaaaapp!

[WM6]

explained for little children:
more depth needs more power, size and weight.
use a pinpointer if you wanna find close stuff.

More depth? Every old fashioned PI can go deeper than this JeoToy.

Weight are only one of Contras, there are many others too (read debate in Jeohunter thread).

This trashy Nintendo are completly unusable for serious TH.

[Funfinder]

may be a bit off but if i recall my past - somehow i'm always coming back to: "antenna finetuning"!

radio antennas incl. connectors on roof with and without amplifier, tuning coils fineadjustment inside radios, satellite dishes (since yesterday 8 different ones), selfbuild wifi & gps antennas plus for electrostatic receivers and last but not least: metal detector magnetic coil finetuning...

a "job" that needs a lot patience and keeping in mind all gain influencing parameter buts can improve the performance enormous, as we see with the very finetuned Alonso PDs.

perhaps therefore later I'm priviledged for a special detector that only works extremly finetuned... diving deep into the microcosmos of "hyper minimal difference - arts"...

[J_Player]

may be a bit off but if i recall my past - somehow i'm always coming back to: "antenna finetuning"!

radio antennas incl. connectors on roof with and without amplifier, tuning coils fineadjustment inside radios, satellite dishes (since yesterday 8 different ones), selfbuild wifi & gps antennas plus for electrostatic receivers and last but not least: metal detector magnetic coil finetuning...

a "job" that needs a lot patience and keeping in mind all gain influencing parameter buts can improve the performance enormous, as we see with the very finetuned Alonso PDs.

perhaps therefore later I'm priviledged for a special detector that only works extremly finetuned... diving deep into the microcosmos of "hyper minimal difference - arts"...

If you recall, the Alonso PD is said to be a metal detector circuit. Both Qiaozhi and hung say it is a simple metal detector that was modified with an added ferrite circuit and other circuit modifications. According to hung, the ferrite was added to make it ignore all metals except gold. This would seem to indicate it is detecting eddy currents that it generates in buried metal, and with the help of a fine tuned ferrite receiver, it filters out the reception of all rx signals except signals from gold (there are also reports it can detect other noises like sparks, or common metals when close range). We have others who say it is more, and can detect gold at larger distances than a metal detector.

The Alonso PD serves to point out a basic differences between your "extremely finetuned" detector and his design. There are differences in both the design approach, and in the functioning of the PD when compared to the detector you are experimenting with.

Comparing the differences in design approach:
Alonso began with a commercially available metal detector kit which he modified and added circuitry to improve the performance for specialized treasure hunting. He modified it to find only gold. He knew what the basic circuit was detecting, and focused his work on optimizing his circuit enhancements to reject other metals that are not gold.

With your detector, you also began with a commercially available electronic MP3 amplifier and speaker set. Without major modifications to the audio amplifier, you wired its input to a high gain amplifier connected to a coil, a metal plate, and to a finger without knowing what it would detect until you turned it on and found some evidence of responding to static charges. It is also pertinent to note the high gain amplifier is soldered point-to-point without a circuit board, so the conductors can move slightly when the detector is moved. There is also a wooden "sound box" enhancement to help the high gain conductors move from acoustic vibrations. We can expect things attached to the wooden box (loose circuit parts and wires, for example) to vibrate when acoustic sounds in the air and other movements cause the box to vibrate, much as the wooden surfaces of a guitar move and vibrate from the movement of the guitar wires or other from sounds in the air. I suppose any mechanical vibration, impact, or sound in the air will cause the wooden box to vibrate.

Comparing the differences in performance:
The difference between the performance of the Alonso detector and the Funfinder detector is the Alonso detector responds to metal, whether buried or in the air. The exact distance has not been definitely established, but a video shows it beeping at about 2 meters distance on one occasion.

The video of the funfinder detector detector shows it responds to a plastic bag that was rubbed in hair from 1 meter distance (it looked to be closer to 2 meters distance in the video). Another video shows this detector also responds to a helicopter flying in the air at 400 meters, while it was reported this detector detected the helicopter from 1-2 Km distance before the video was turned on. It is also reported this detector does not respond to a Garret VLF metal detector coil at 6.5 KHz or to AM broadcast transmissions.

Conclusions based on reported results:
1. Alonso PD was designed as a modification and enhancement to an existing metal detector to improve its discriminating ability and range.
Funfinder detector was designed as a high gain amplifier to see what would happen if you solder parts together without a circuit board and put them in a wooden box, then connect a coil, a metal plate, and an optional finger touch point at a transistor emitter. The objective seems to be an attempt to achieve long range detection, and leave the design theory for later after we see what it detects.
2. The Alonso PD detects buried gold and gold in the air. The Funfinder detector detects charged plastic bags from 1 m, and helicopters flying at over 1 Km distance. And possibly detects loud sounds?
3. There have been no reports of the Funfinder detector responding to buried metals. If this detector is to be used for treasure hunting, then maybe we will need more experimenting to get it to locate metals.

(Just as an idea - don't try this unless you think it's a good idea)
Maybe begin with a theory of what kind of signal you want to detect that could indicate buried metal. Then make a basic circuit design to detect this kind of signal.
Then, as a final step, do the extreme fine tuning of the antennas. And while you fine tune the antennas, maybe it will be good to put the high gain inputs and amplifier on a circuit board so conductors cannot move, and so you can establish a good ground plane.

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

perhaps therefore later I'm priviledged for a special detector that only works extremly finetuned... diving deep into the microcosmos of "hyper minimal difference - arts"...

Hi Funfinder

here you are:

detector #3 DNC (Deep Nano Cosmos) detector:

[WM6]

if previuos project is too complicated here you are very simple version:

[WM6]

Or this someway advanced:

[WM6]

or maybe you wish somewhat more advanced: