Mineoro FG79-Happy new Year

[hung]

WOW... What a story.

Can you tell us the amazing story of this one here too?

[Rudy]

Yes, maybe a few pf is enough to send the 10 Hz to the input of Q1.

Doubtful. The capacitive reactance of a few pF to a 10 Hz signal and even it's 7th harmonic is way too high to inject any meaningful signal into Q1.

[J_Player]

Doubtful. The capacitive reactance of a few pF to a 10 Hz signal and even it's 7th harmonic is way too high to inject any meaningful signal into Q1.

That's how I see it too.
But then I remember watching the clock signal from a 3v calculator on an oscilloscope including the voltage rise and fall, picked up with a 3 inch dia loop of speaker wire held up to 5 cm away from the calculator.
After moving more than 5 cm away, the calculator signal became too weak to see in the noise that the probe was picking up from the air (done outdoors away from electronics except the oscilloscope).
I also saw this same signal a little cleaner when using a 3 cm square aluminum foil in an alligator clip held up to 5 cm away from the calculator.
I confirmed this was indeed the calculator signal by checking the actual signal on the circuit board. The actual signal was the same, but stronger, and without the artifacts that tended to change the wave shapes.
For most common calculators, I saw square waves that ranged from about 30 Hz to nearly 600 Hz. When measuring from the circuit board, these square waves were clear, and not nearly buried in all kinds of sine wave noise from the air that ranged from AF to RF.

At first I thought it might be EMI I was seeing from the rise and fall times of the clocking, which showed some minor ringing at the edges. But the high and low voltages were preserved, albeit in reduced amplitude.
So it was not simply EMI from the rising and falling edges. When holding a 3 cm square plate at a distance more than 2-3 cm in the air, the capacitance is in the extremely small ranges where we would not expect any capacitive coupling that could be seen on an oscilloscope.

You can try it yourself. You can probably pick up the calculator clocking by simply connecting an alligator clip to the end of your probe and moving it around the calculator to see where the strong areas are.
(Strongest places I found were close to the display and just below it where the processor is). It seems to me the calculator clocking at 3v around 30Hz is not so much different than the Atmel 5v signal clocking at 10 Hz.

Any ideas of what caused the calculator clocking signal to transfer through a few cm of air to the oscilloscope probe?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Yes, maybe a few pf is enough to send the 10 Hz to the input of Q1. As long as the noise in the air is not too strong to make the 10 Hz seem invisible.
Now we finally see the design ideas of Mineoro. Fred was correct. The design seems a lot like the pistol detector.
When we look at the design, we see the same design concept we found in the pistol detector, and using the same kind of details including a beep circuit.
This was definitely started as an Alonso design.


Thank you for the schematic, Geo.
Do you think anyone will use it to make a treasure locator?

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi J_P.
I don't know if anyone will use the schematic to construct a Mineoro clone .
Maybe anyone can make a small modification to it and to experiment with it.
Minime said that his version (very small diferences) is based on a ferrite and coil in the position of ion champer.
The basic reason that i post the schematic here is because::::
I learned a lot of things from this site, so i wanted to put a "small stone" to this building, to Carl's building.....the Geotech1!!!!

Regards

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.
I don't know if anyone will use the schematic to construct a Mineoro clone .
Maybe anyone can make a small modification to it and to experiment with it.
Minime said that his version (very small diferences) is based on a ferrite and coil in the position of ion champer.
The basic reason that i post the schematic here is because::::
I learned a lot of things from this site, so i wanted to put a "small stone" to this building, to Carl's building.....the Geotech1!!!!

Regards

Thank you Geo,
I won't use this schematic to make a treasure locator either. But already I had lots of fun studying the Mineoro theories and circuit design methods.
You are correct. We can learn much about what the Mineoro factory is thinking from looking at the circuit.

We see Dr. hung cannot give any believable answers to the questions I asked. Instead he tries to trick people into playing his stupid circuit games.
Should we conclude that Dr. hung has the same opinion of the Mineoro circuit operation as we read on the old Mineoro pages before they removed them?


Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

We see Dr. hung cannot give any believable answers to the questions I asked. Instead he tries to trick people into playing his stupid circuit games.
Should we conclude that Dr. hung has the same opinion of the Mineoro circuit operation as we read on the old Mineoro pages before they removed them?

It appears that Dr Hung is finding this thread too difficult to follow, and has had to revert back to very basic circuit theory. Unfortunately he has not yet learned which way round to put the LED symbol, so he used a big black blob instead to cover up his lack of knowledge.

[hung]

Thank you Geo,
I won't use this schematic to make a treasure locator either. But already I had lots of fun studying the Mineoro theories and circuit design methods.
You are correct. We can learn much about what the Mineoro factory is thinking from looking at the circuit.

We see Dr. hung cannot give any believable answers to the questions I asked. Instead he tries to trick people into playing his stupid circuit games.
Should we conclude that Dr. hung has the same opinion of the Mineoro circuit operation as we read on the old Mineoro pages before they removed them?


Best wishes,
J_P

-

[hung]

It appears that Dr Hung is finding this thread too difficult to follow, and has had to revert back to very basic circuit theory. Unfortunately he has not yet learned which way round to put the LED symbol, so he used a big black blob instead to cover up his lack of knowledge.

Don't even recognize an animated model in Proteus?

[WM6]

Don't even recognize an animated model in Proteus?

Mineoros can be animated in Proteus? You mean animaled?

[FrancoItaly]

HiJ_player

Perhaps you are right, if we look for the 10M resistor between the brass rod and the 27V, the very low impedance of the BC548 it can destroy any picoampere signal and so this appears as a gadget without any usefullness. In my tests for picoampere or picovolt signal I use TL081 or CA3130 not sure a bipolar transistor.

Best regards

[Fred]

Hung science: He "explains":

[hung]

HiJ_player

Perhaps you are right, if we look for the 10M resistor between the brass rod and the 27V, the very low impedance of the BC548 it can destroy any picoampere signal and so this appears as a gadget without any usefullness. In my tests for picoampere or picovolt signal I use TL081 or CA3130 not sure a bipolar transistor.

Best regards

Hello my friend Franco. I'm sorry to inform you that contrary to your belief, this has a specific purpose indeed.
Also, the schematic has some errors.
But I guess I have already talked too much.

[Qiaozhi]

Also, the schematic has some errors.

Hmmm ... this seems to be a common theme.

But I guess I have already talked too much.

You could say that.

It's time for you give up. You're fighting a losing battle. ... and still no-one is leaping to your defense.
Think about it.

[hung]

Morning Ozzy.
Hope your eyes are better today.

Do you usually need someone defending you?

[Qiaozhi]

Morning Ozzy.
Hope your eyes are better today.

Do you usually need someone defending you?

1/10 for effort.