MINERO

[ivconic]

Mineoro and other stuff


"Gold buried for 100 years is no different than gold buried for 100
seconds."
- Well , yes it is! Second one You wont forget where You put it.

"I'd still like to see an experiment that buried gold produces ions."
-I would not.Not interested.I'd like to see only a gold!

Ha,ha,ha!
People,Your controversy and reviews are never ending story.
If somebody want to beleive in a such a fraud as mineoro, fine by me.
I do only beleive in exact things.
A question for those Mineoro lovers:
Friends,are you a rich people?Having such excell product as
Mineoro would easily provide you a lot of finds in the field,
so I guess that you are very rich and happy people, with full
pockets of gold?
No hard feelings.Best regards and lot of finds!

P.S.
Many thanks to One is still fighting against frauds and save peoples money!

[Esteban]

Hi All

Rich people no need gold detector. Do you ear that —for example— Mr. Bill Gates had for hobby or passion metal detection? THIS IS ONE EXTREME: RICH.

Do you ear that the "beachcombers" are very richs finding few rings, chains, coins, etc.? THIS IS THE OTHER EXTREME: "POOR".

Philosophical question: What I understand about what is rich and what is poor?

* * * I'm searching along the years for treasures to really make rich of me (for to have more time for to dedicate in this passion) * * *

I know that metal detectors don't make the gold, found it, with luck, in the correct place, in the day, with all the best conditions, etc.

Is more pleasant found a copper coin at 5 or 7 meters from your electronic LRL gadget that ALL THE GOLD OF THE WORLD... THIS IS THE GOLD!

[goldfinder]

Mineoro and ION detection

I see the new MINEORO has a little antenna sticking up on it. Is this for the detection of IONS???

There has also been a claim that there is a special detector of ions or something else sealed in the unit for special detection.

As Carl keep saying, sealed units can't detect free ions. The only exception to this is high energy particles that will ionize gases in the sealed chamber like a geiger counter, and these are not "free ions", and Mineoro does not make any claims to detection of ionizing radiation.

My FET electrostatic meter has antenna also to enhance detection. I'll gladly sell ion field detectors for a lot less than the MINEORO... Just send me and ounce of gold (preferrably Canadian Maple Leaf or USA Double Eagle, I'd even take Krugerands). I'd bury a couple of gold coins in my backyard and water every day and see if I get any ions that I can detect. Meanwhile youall can field test my ion field detector.

It looked like one of the original Mineoro's had a aperature into the unit that possibly had an air pump sucking in air. Quite possibly it has an ion detection chamber inside the unit. Anyone know if this is the case???

Best 2 U who have bought the Mineoro. It certainly looks like a simple system that is horribly over priced.

Goldfinder

[ivconic]

Some answers


To Esteban....

"Rich people no need gold detector. Do you ear that —for example— Mr. Bill
Gates had for hobby or passion metal detection? THIS IS ONE EXTREME: RICH."

Maybe so.I bet that he never used Mineoro, but some nice IB or PI.

"Do you ear that the "beachcombers" are very richs finding few rings, chains,
coins, etc.? THIS IS THE OTHER EXTREME: "POOR"."

They almost always use PI or IB, in some very poor cases BFO!

"Philosophical question: What I understand about what is rich and what is poor?"

Bill Gates is rich. "Beachcombers" are poor! No philosophy at all!

"I'm searching along the years for treasures to really make rich of me (for to
have more time for to dedicate in this passion) "

I can agree with that. But in the name of those years, try sometimes some
real detector....for example Minelab Relic Hawk or GP 3000 Extreme or Fisher1266
or White's Eagle II or any simmilar and you gonna realize,that you wasted all
those years, dandling with LRL!

"I know that metal detectors don't make the gold, found it, with luck, in the correct
place, in the day, with all the best conditions, etc."

If that so, than you don't need it at all! Esspecially not expensive one!
If you have all elements you mentioned than any detector will work, even Mineoro,
but giving $8000 for non-working toy, only rich man can afford that!

"Is more pleasant found a copper coin at 5 or 7 meters from your electronic LRL gadget
that ALL THE GOLD OF THE WORLD... THIS IS THE GOLD!"

I beleive you that 100%.It is impossible(with LRL's), and when you do it, same
thing as flush royal on high stakes poker in Las Vegas or free key from Fort Knox!
..................

Esteban, my friend....O.K....let's talk no more about it.Everybody has a right
on his own choice and opinion. This is forum, You said yours...I said mine(lab)...
it is O.K.....cool! Regards!

To goldfinger...

Ions are defined as electrically charged atoms. Positively charged ions have a
deficiency of electrons, and negatively charged ions have a surplus of electrons.
An ion can also be classified as an atom or molecule with an electrostatic charge.
Another classification of an ion is a charged particle that is formed when one or
more electrons are taken from or added to a previously neutral atom or molecule.
The Ion Detector can be used to detect the presence, and indicate the relative
amount, of free ions in the air.The Ion Detector, has to be designed to indicate
ion emissions from ion generators high-voltage leakage points, static-electricity
sources,electric-field gradients, and in other situations where the presence
of their relative flux density is required.Telescoping antenna is used as the
pickup.In the presence of an ion field, ions accumulate on the antenna, causing
a minute negative current to flow to the input of front end of some high impendance
amplifier.(i have just invented a hot water!)
From the other hand, an ion generator or ioniser is a device which creates ions and
puts them in to the air. A high negative voltage of around 5000v will make negative
ions and vice versa, high positive voltage will make positive ions.You have to run
that kind of device for several minutes in a very closed space to achieve required
flux density, which provide at least any detection!!!!!(Does bell ringing?)
To study more about method of generating ions look on the .net for Cockroft-Welton
principles.
So if we respect what is claimed here, how the hell anybody can expect to "feel"
ions in the field on long distance, aka long range....longer than a few inches!?
Carl presumed that maybe there are no ions outdor in the field. I can partially
agree. There are ions ouside but in very small concentration, so there are no such
device with witch you can detect them far then a few inches from source(generator)!
So we discover now that funny telescopic antenna is trully used, but in very close,
narrow meaning.Do you really beleive that buried gold,coin or any relics are able
to produce ions in wanted density and remain stabile, waiting you to detect them?
I think that some people confused some very known principles with a pure imagination
and decide to make LRL device which really works! I would call them a naive constructors.
They really beleive in what are they doing.The problem is that those devices are
not working at all, outside of labs!If anybody interested, may check on Nikola Tesla
stuff on the .net, it is related in some elements.

I am not pure theoretical. I've done a lot of experiments long time ago, and realized
that it was a waste of time.
Here is a little toy for you.....(baby mineoro)

[ivconic]

I forget to attach these...

[hung]

I can agree with that. But in the name of those years, try sometimes some
real detector....for example Minelab Relic Hawk or GP 3000 Extreme or Fisher1266
or White's Eagle II or any simmilar and you gonna realize,that you wasted all
those years, dandling with LRL!

I have a Minelab Excalibur which I use on the beach to confirm sites detected by the PDC and for diving use at sea to pick up goods again detected by the 'Mineoros' as you say... Only thing is that I would take months to scan a site when with the Mineoro I do in a matter of hours if not minutes..

but giving $8000 for non-working toy, only rich man can afford that!
There are more reasons to charge this amount than just common comercial ones.. And most important: It works, period.

Ions are defined as electrically charged atoms. Positively charged ions have a
deficiency of electrons, and negatively charged ions have a surplus of electrons.
An ion can also be classified as an atom or molecule with an electrostatic charge.
Another classification of an ion is a charged particle that is formed when one or
They really beleive in what are they doing.The problem is that those devices are
not working at all, outside of labs!If anybody interested, may check on Nikola Tesla
stuff on the .net, it is related in some elements. [/QUOTE]
A molecule is the smallest part of a compound that still retains the characteristic of that compound. It cannot be divided without having another classification..So ions are actually atoms which are modified. So when the negative charged ion encounters its positive counterpart, they crash. As in the words of Damasio, 'they love each other so much as Romeo and Juliet'...

What Damasio and Alonso discovered are beyond common knowledge and will never be discussed.
Is it a complete and finished matter tough? Of course not! Their concept is evolving as any other technology to be more effective each time.

Tesla was a genius ahead of his time and his many conceptions like the earth acting as a capacitor and inventions like wireless electrical transmission and many others were superb and were abandoned only because of small capitalist interests... Yet he was charged as a 'crackpot'..

It's so funny now seeing skeptics citing Tesla.. Oh well...

I am not pure theoretical. I've done a lot of experiments long time ago, and realized
that it was a waste of time.

Maybe it was for you, but not for Mineoro. Upon 50 years of gathering knowledge they are up to something.

As I said before, I won't try to convince anyone if Mineoro detectors work or not.
What for? One believes what they want. This is gonna be an endless discussion and frankly I don't want to take part on that...
The only person I had sucess convincing was myself and that's what's important..

My personal opinion of the skeptics is that they did not suceed in building a working LRL and for that reason they keep bashing LRL builders who are sucessful. But the true hidden reason is to try to reverse engineering them..he,he. 'Why he did and I couldn't?' sort of things...
It's like the dowsing subject. They can't dowse and then what's left? Let's bash who can.
There might be other working LRLs around .. But I know Mineoro is one of then for sure.

Regards.

[Qiaozhi]

Mineoro and ion detection

This whole subject is an excellent example of a phenomenon known as pathological science. Believers offer fantastic theories that are contrary to experience, and meet any criticism with ad hoc excuses. Such theories can easily be spotted as pathological, when only the believers can reproduce the results, and critics continually fail to duplicate the experiment.

This does not mean that anybody is being purposely dishonest, but simply that people are tricked into believing false results by a lack of understanding. There are many published cases over the years that have attracted a great deal of attention, and sometimes many hundreds of papers have been published supporting the results. Some even lasted as long as 20 years before it was accepted that the results were caused by subjective effects, wishful thinking, or threshold interactions.

Self-deception is a process by which we deceive ourselves into accepting something as true, when in fact it is based on a false idea. This is why scientists insist on clearly defined and controlled double-blind, randomized and repeatable tests. This is the only way to negate the wonderful ability of human beings to deceive themselves into believing things that are not true.

"Our capacity for self-deception has no known limits." - Michael Novak

[Esteban]

Contrary to experience? Wich is your experience? The only you know! Many of us to lack your wisdom, please give us a little! Also, this is contrary to experience, but occurs!:

[Qiaozhi]

The Donkey and the Cart.

Contrary to experience? Wich is your experience? The only you know! Many of us to lack your wisdom, please give us a little! Also, this is contrary to experience, but occurs!:

Your reply unfortunately demonstrates the impossibility of this whole discussion. i.e. The validity or otherwise of the LRL phenomenon is based on people's subjective experiences and not on an objective set of tests. We could argue (sorry - discuss) this all day without reaching an agreement. Both Randi and Carl have money on the table for anyone who can prove that an LRL really works, but consistently nobody takes up the challenge. Why? I believe I know the answer to this question, but perhaps you know of another?

By the way, I hope that wasn't your donkey??

[Esteban]

I assume my "donkeyism", ergo, I can learn! Also, I think you can't discuss seriouslly, since you consider all people don't think like you as sick persons.

[ivconic]

Bye

"Tesla was a genius ahead of his time and his many conceptions like the
earth acting as a capacitor and inventions like wireless electrical
transmission and many others were superb and were abandoned only because
of small capitalist interests... Yet he was charged as a 'crackpot'.."

Abandoned ...!? Never! Only you do not know about it.
Not only you are trying to teach me(us) about your funny ideas(lrl,dowsing...etc)but
now you would like to teach me about Nikola Tesla !!! Tesla was Serbian,born in
Croatia, lived in USA.About his work...it would take a pages and pages for me to
write to you about it, that's why I said that any concerned may find all on the
.net . Since I am Serbian and We here growing a tradition to rescpect and learn
about our great compatriots through history,it was one of earliest educatioanl
obligation for me to learn and know everything about Him,His life and His work!!!
You may say, that I had to graduate on that matters. So please do not talk about
Nikola Tesla to me.
This 2006.year is a year of Nikola Tesla, worldwide, that's way I mentioned
Him in last post. It would do a good for you and the other dowsers(with mineoro
or without) to study a little more about His work and than to understand some
basic principles in ions,emf...etc.

"It's so funny now seeing skeptics citing Tesla.. Oh well..."

You really don't know nothing about Him !!???
Tesla,himself, was a great skeptic about everything!
No skeptics - no knowledge! Beleivers better go to temple and chant.


"Maybe it was for you, but not for Mineoro. Upon 50 years of gathering
knowledge they are up to something"

Upon 50 wasted years(sorry, but it has to be wasted if those latest products
are the top of their success) they trying to compensate lost time to get
rich by selling nonsence devices to naive and beleivers by hot prices!
No, really....collect all materiall to build mineoro, it will cost you a
$30-$40...not a $8000 !!!!!!If you do not know how, than I'll build it for
you for some $100 extra.

"My personal opinion of the skeptics is that they did not suceed in building
a working LRL and for that reason they keep bashing LRL builders who are
sucessful. But the true hidden reason is to try to reverse engineering them..
he,he. 'Why he did and I couldn't?' sort of things...
It's like the dowsing subject. They can't dowse and then what's left? Let's
bash who can.
There might be other working LRLs around .. But I know Mineoro is one of then
for sure."

Maybe is that case with somebody else.But sorry, not with me.As i said, a long
time ago i was interested in many things (maybe you was not born yet).
Tried almost everything. I do have a some expirience which is enough to
distinguish between right and wrong way to go further.
Bashing !? Well, if that so...I am very sorry..and I am not gonna
bash you any more. Since this is forum, I tried to say my real opinion. Maybe
I chosed a "sharp" way to do it. But that's Me! Sometimes people get resentfull
by somebody's attitude. If that so, than I am sorry. Any way I was thinking
not to waste my time here any more. There are a very nice threads here to
visit and learn more about real stuff.But a label "Remote sensing" attract me
in good hope that I am gonna read something about serious and real remote
detecting,sensing or what ever you like.Since it is not the case,I guess this
is my last visit here.
Regards to all....
Special regards to my brother in arms Quiaozhi.
You put it right. I could'nt done better!!!
Quiaozhi meet me on the other threads, we can exchange knowledge and schematics.

[J_Player]

After reading this thread it appears to me that this topic is going nowhere. There is a group who says long range locaters are total bunk, and another group who says they work by sensing ions or electrostatic fields of a target that is located a long distance. Here are my thoughts:

1. If the LRLs work, then why aren't their owners rich from all the treasure they found? Why aren't the manufacturers rich from all the treasure they found?

2. Why has not a single manufacturer of a LRL come to claim the $25,000 prize? Why has not a single owner of a LRL come to claim the $25,000 prize?

4. I cannot imagine any known principle that allows an electronic device to locate a buried target at a long distance by sensing ions or the electrostatic field of a buried object. But there may be such a principle which is little known and does work, as has been demonstrated by past inventors who developed new technologies. For example, Nicola Tesla developed quite a few new technologies, including AC electricity and its generators and transmission systems. After awhile, all his detractors including Edison gave up on their cherished beliefs in DC electricity to power the world simply because his improved method worked better. After Tesla left his partnership with Westinghouse, he started his own venture to transmit electricity without wires, using his high voltage and high power Tesla coils. He demonstrated how wireless power transmission works by lighting up fluorescent light bulbs 20 miles away without any wire linked from his transmitter to the light bulbs. He turned on the remote lights on demand, and turned them off on demand.

5. The proponents of LRLs talk a lot about ion and electrostatic field detection theories as an explanation of how their LRLs work. They also claim to have developed a little-known technology which most of the scientific community is unaware. However, I have never seen any demonstration that they can cause this technology to work for finding a buried target. I would like to see anyone use a LRL to detect a buried target that they did not bury, and thus end all the controversy about whether the theories are correct. Here is an easy way to compare the performance of a LRL to any conventional metal detector:

1. Go to a remote area that has very little traffic, like a dry lake bed, or a remote desert area and mark out a strip of land 4-feet wide by 500 feet long. Use whatever means you have at hand to insure there is nothing buried in a detectable range inside this strip.

2. Bury a target 6 inches deep somewhere inside the area. Take measurements so you know where the target is buried.

3. Then rake over the top surface so there is no evidence where the target is buried. Let the area weather for awhile if necessary to remove any evidence of where the target is buried.

Let the people who want to demonstrate their locators find the target within the area. This method can be repeated at several dissimilar sites in order to rule out any interference from underground geological anomalies or mineralization.

If the LRL works as the proponents say, the LRL should be able to easily find the target much faster than a conventional detector, because of it's directional abilities which will simply point out the way. The conventional detectors will have to scan every foot of the strip until they finally come to where the target is buried.

Can anyone with a LRL show a demonstration like this?
Can anyone with a conventional metal detecdtor show me a demonstration like this?

[Carl-NC]

First, thank you all for keeping this discussion civil. Second, anyone know what the Mineoro models cost? How much did a PDC210 cost? How much are the new models?

I have a Minelab Excalibur which I use on the beach to confirm sites detected by the PDC and for diving use at sea to pick up goods again detected by the 'Mineoros' as you say...

Are we now claiming that gold ions are emitted by undersea treasure, they float to the surface, and are detectable by a Mineoro?

- Carl

[goldfinder]

ION Detector

Hey IVCONIC,
Those ion schematics are the ones I tested many years ago. Now you go and publish and I can't get anyone to send me 1 OZ gold coins to make an them an ion detector since they can do it for $20 worth of parts. DARN!

Oh well, now I just have to go back to selling that land in Florida some more (hahahaha).

Seriously though, I would like to know if anyone has ever proven whether there is any kind of field around gold buried over a long period of time??? I can't afford to bury any gold coins in my backyard for 20 years to find out.

Goldfinder (not Goldfinger - he was 007s nemisis on one of the early 007 movies).

[Qiaozhi]

The Donkey and the Cart

I assume my "donkeyism", ergo, I can learn! Also, I think you can't discuss seriouslly, since you consider all people don't think like you as sick persons.

Hi Estaban,

I think you may not have understood. I was not saying that you are a donkey. I was asking if the donkey in the picture belongs to you? You do not have to assume any "donkeyism".

Keep up the polite discussion.