MINERO

[goldfinder]

Ionic versus Electrostatic

I posted this in IONIC MECHANISM but maybe it fits better here.

To all doing the ION detectors,
From building several so called ion detectors (Ivconic, Zahori, etc.) I find that they all do a good job of detecting electrostatic fields but are lousy in detection of ions. I decided that the ion detector must be able to distinguish between the two or one doesn't have any reliable way to tell if ions are being detected or it is simply an electrostatic field.

To solve this conumdrum I ran a few tests with my ion/ES detector and found that ions have a very rapid pulse associaled with them. This would be analogous to what Esteban referred to in one memo saying the Minero gave a "pop" in the earphones when an ion was detected. Conversely, the ES fields were much slower transitions.

The "radio receiver" in the Mineoro detector is possibly a pulse (high frequency) detector and if it is a radio, it is a very poor way to do a pulse detect that comes from an ion or ion discharge.

In my tests I set off sparks by walking across my carpet with acrylic socks and then touched a ground location to create a spark discharge. That would be ion discharges and high speed discharges. I adjusted my oscope to detect anything over 50 Khz as output from the my ion/ES detector circuit. I found that the only spark discharges were detected and the electrostatic fields that I created around the antenna would be totally ignored as far as triggering the Oscope.

So now I am going to install a glitch grabber circuit into my detector circuit and see how that works.

As an aside, I did a lot of field tests looking for buried treasure with my ion/ES detector and so far have found absolutely nothing. The detector is so sensitive that my feet generate ES and possibly ion discharges that make the detector meter do wild. So to counter this I take a few steps that then use the detector.

Any inputs on a simple glitch detector would be appreciated.

If there is a pony in all this ion horsepucky TH stuf I'll find it.

Goldfinder

[michael]

The detector is so sensitive that my feet generate ES and possibly ion discharges that make the detector meter do wild. So to counter this I take a few steps that then use the detector.

Which one is so sensitive; built base on Ivconic or Zahori circuit?
which one is more satisfiable, stable and precise? Thanks a lot.

[rumensat]

i agree with Qiaozhi, he is absolutely right when shortcut battery it produce electomagnetic waves with wery large freqency spectrum - from khz to mhz
you can recieve with any radio reciever.
about black box it is for low freqency becose of ferit transformer (may be coil) for me it is generator for 5-10 khz
about board there is antena printed on board very similar to car alarm remote unit working around 422 mhz
there is very strange parts not logical to be together
there is any opamp for taking small signals and to put them in PIC

[J_Player]

OMG... Noooooooo... Could it be?

Hmmm... I been reading about this "ion crashing" stuff for awhile, and it occurred to me there's something wrong with this picture. First off, there is no record of "ion crashing" anywhere in the history of physics that I ever read about. Now maybe it is true that ions really do crash and make signals that a Mineoro machine can hone in on to detect incredible treasures from long distances. but what if.... just suppose...


Maybe there is no such thing as ions "crashing" in a way that makes a signal to be sensed. Now I am not saying there is no such thing, I am only asking "what if the theory is wrong"...


Just suppose for a minute... that there is a completely different mechanism that allows LRL detectors to work. And also suppose that Damasio does not know what this principle is.. (only suppose)..


If we were to suppose Damasio was wrong in his assessment of how his machines work, then could it be possible that the short-circuited battery was actually sending out radio waves that can be picked up by the circuitry in his machine? Hmmm? Can you rule that out?


Now we all know our beloved Demasio would NEVER intentionally mislead us. But just suppose he made an error when trying to determine the mechanism how his machines work... What would this mean?


Would it mean that Qiaozhi is right? Would it mean the battery syndrome is merely radio noise? Would it mean there are no ions causing the mineoro machines to beep?

[mosha]

I have mineoro unit, I checked it with an Ion detector, it emmits negative ions not positive as posted here befor.

I have also personal neck negative air ionizer, I put it infront of the mineoro unit and it detected from about 5 meter.

hope this information help you.

[J_Player]

OMG...Really..??

mosha: I have mineoro unit, I checked it with an Ion detector, it emmits negative ions not positive as posted here befor. I have also personal neck negative air ionizer, I put it infront of the mineoro unit and it detected from about 5 meter.

Really? Are You sure? The mineoro sent out negative ions 5 meters from the box?

I am amazed. I thought Damasio said the ions were contained inside the chamber. I had no idea these ions are transmitted 5 meters away! I would like to see this test with my own eyes. What model Mineoro do you have?

[mosha]

it don't sent the ions a way, but around the champer only.
I said it detect the small air negative ionizer from 5 meters when I put the ionizer infront of the mineoro unit from 3 to 5 meters it beebs.

I think the mineoro unit has two main circuits, first is VLF detector and the second is ionizer. it detect the ions' collisions around the champer.

this is just a guiss.

[Dell Winders]

I am not qualified to argue electronics, or physics with any of you, but I have field tested ELECTRONICLY METERED Remote sensing Discrimination devices, by several inventors since I was first introduced to this concept in 1979. So far, Mineoro, is the only developer among those inventor's to ever suggest the Ion theory.

For what it's worth, the Mineoro, generates a harmonic signal line to and from the "Field" of the target which can be metered with a simple pair of Dowsing rods, and the "field' volume nulled with my "Weight chek" the same as every other so called LRL, I've ever used by ANY manufacture.

This is a provable common link regardless of theory, claims, or arguments Pro or Con. Dell

[hung]

Just suppose for a minute... that there is a completely different mechanism that allows LRL detectors to work. And also suppose that Damasio does not know what this principle is.. (only suppose)..

Hey JPlayer, suppose for a minute that the inventor of the airplane never meant that this machine could fly. He actually wanted it to be another automobile just using the wings to get some air thrust...
But hey, this thing can fly!

If we were to suppose Damasio was wrong in his assessment of how his machines work, then could it be possible that the short-circuited battery was actually sending out radio waves that can be picked up by the circuitry in his machine? Hmmm? Can you rule that out?

He, he,he. Damasio and Alonso studying the phenomena for 50 years, and now some here expect to discover their methods in some posts...

Would it mean that Qiaozhi is right? Would it mean the battery syndrome is merely radio noise? Would it mean there are no ions causing the mineoro machines to beep?

I think we have covered this 1,000 times before. Ions surrond matter and long time buried objects produce stronger fields. Your basis to understand this better lacks the introduction of a component which I am not gonna tell. But I grant you the concept is correct.

[Dell Winders]

From what I've seen in comparison , Minero is still a long ways behind in understanding the workings of Remote Sensing Discrimination technology.

I don't buy the legitimacy of their supposedly developing a new model every few months and promoting it as a new advanced technology each time and then excusing the problems of 1 year old models as old technology. If they don't understand the technology after 50 years of R&D, they never will.

The promotions of an advanced technology with each sound like an all too familiar LRL competitive marketing ploy used by some US sellers to get repeat business and justify higher prices by a slight revamping of the same old product. Dell

[hung]

From what I've seen in comparison , Minero is still a long ways behind in understanding the workings of Remote Sensing Discrimination technology.

Dell I can't compare this to dowsing or whatever, but one thing Damasio always gets pissed is when somebody tells him his detector involves discrimination. He almost shout: 'The detector does not discriminate which is a primitive term. The detector classify the substance.'
So please go to their site and understand the difference. They are completely different things. If you don't find it on their site, I can provide you a link.

I don't buy the legitimacy of their supposedly developing a new model every few months and promoting it as a new advanced technology each time and then excusing the problems of 1 year old models as old technology. If they don't understand the technology after 50 years of R&D, they never will.

I don't see it like that. All previous detectors work. My team with the PDC detected a jesuit site. They may have a questionable policy which one can or canmnot agree, but their efforts in always improve their invention is evident.
Good for us customers.

[Dell Winders]

Dell I can't compare this to dowsing or whatever, but one thing Damasio always gets pissed is when somebody tells him his detector involves discrimination. He almost shout: 'The detector does not discriminate which is a primitive term. The detector classify the substance.'
So please go to their site and understand the difference. They are completely different things. If you don't find it on their site, I can provide you a link.

Sorry, I have no formal education, or technical training so I apologize for the mis-nomer. There is nothing I can do if folks I don't know get pissed at my ignorance, so that is their own problem.

I remember the instructions did say the Mineoro was subject to detecting elements other than Gold even though it is explained as a Gold Ion detector with an integrated Gold conductor. Can I assume then that the Mineoro, is only designed to classify and distinguish between Ferrous & and Non-ferrous metals, and not intended to discriminate to any specific chemical element?

No, I did not include dowsing with my comparison of other electronic remote sensing technologies I've field tested since 1979, other than they all, including Mineoro, can trace their signal to the target with simple non-electronic rods that can also be used for Dowsing. Of course, if I didn't understand there are metering applications other than dowsing with the Rods, I wouldn't be able to inform you of that.

I don't see it like that. All previous detectors work. My team with the PDC detected a jesuit site. They may have a questionable policy which one can or canmnot agree, but their efforts in always improve their invention is evident. Good for us customers.

I don't question the fact that the Mineoro, works. I have field tested and compared one of their models 428?, with a 528? upgrade, with other methods that also work.

From my own field experience of using different applications and theories advanced by different inventors compared with the Mineoro, prompted me to express the opinion;

Originally Posted by Dell Winders
From what I've seen in comparison , Minero is still a long ways behind in understanding the workings of Remote Sensing Discrimination technology.

Yes, I do question their advertising & promotion policy because in their instructions I found some mis-leading things that didn't quite hold true and creates doubt in my mind whether the author is as well informed about the Mineoro operation, as the advertising suggests.

A questionable advertising policy, can result in a questionable product. Dell

[mineorogreece]

mineoro detects ions

Hello Dell
This was sent to me by mineoro which describes their detection system and I think it talks about what esteban and hung and you are talking about.

Substance Locator and Classifying Detector.

This is a system capable of accurately detecting,
locating and classifying, at long range, the
detected substance.

It detects,locates and classifies buried substances.

The detection method is based on the electrostatic
fields generated by the Inner core of the Earth that
originate in cosmic space. Location is made possible
due to elliptical propagation of ionic fields, generated

and released by buried substances.

Substance classification is made possible
because of energy archs that emit from buried or non
buried matter, which generate potential energy when
interacting inside an ionic chamber of the same
substance. This phenomenon is amplified in
electronic or mechanical circuitry.

Substance detection takes place in an elliptical
shape. The shortest detection distance occurs at the
South-North direction. The largest detection
distance, at the North-South direction. Average
distances will happen at the East-West/ West-East
directions.

Distances are able to be measured from the
elliptical
geometrical shape generated by electrostatic and
ionic fields at the location of buried substances,
which
are proportional to mass and depth.

Present Technique Stage:

Presently, Buried Substance Detection Systems in the
market, are based in electromagnetic wave
principles.
There are detection methods using dynamic
electricity that measure such variations through
galvanometers.

The above mentioned systems are not able to detect
substances at long range,
classify substances, and can't measure
depth.

[Esteban]

All good long range detector actuates as a sensitive switch. This is the more simple and precisse explanation I can provide.

[Dell Winders]

THIS IS COPIED AND PASTED FROM THE BIONIC ALPHA THREAD. THE REST OF HUNG'S REPLY POST IS RELATED TO HEAR SAY AND NOT REVELANT TO MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, OR CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM OF THE MINEORO PRODUCT.

Quote:
I have already acknowledged that the Mineoro, I tested in Central Florida did indeed work, but was subject to the same limitations as every other MFD/LRL on, and off the market I have field tested. I will be happy to offer an LRL comparison result to the Mineoro, on the Mineoro thread if you are interested?

Are you sure you are now an expert in tuning the Mineoro detector you used? No, I am not. We were tuning according to the factory instructions.

How did you know that you set the correct calibrations to claim the above statements. There is no way for the customer to know without testing on a known target, which I did. But, the customer had no known targets to test Mineoro. Twice it did appear to detect a 1 ounce Gold Kruggerand. Once while in my pocket, and the second time laying on the ground, but more testing would have to be done to be sure.

There's no detector on earth right now AFAIK beat the Mineoros.
If you have not used every detector on earth it is an unqualified opinion.


Quote:
It is my personal opinion, based on my own field experience that the value of
the technology claims by the manufacturers of Mineoro, is being overrated for marketing purposes. The scientific words and graphics are impressive to the novice, but comparative results, with less expensive products is not impressive. Dell

I don't agree with that.
That's your perrogative. I can only honestly inform you, Mineoro company ,or any one interested our results. Whether you believe me or not doesn't matter.

We compared the results of the Mineoro, with 3 other MFD/LRL, which used the rods to trace the locations, determine the depth, and measure the target size, reversing the proceedure on half the locations. They were all within inches of being the same, regardless.

On one occassion we rented an extend-a-hoe and excavated to a depth of 13 feet, and on another occasion we rented a trac hoe (excavator) and with the aid of a large pump we excavated to a depth of 20 feet. On both occassions the readings of Minero, and two of the other MFD/LRL indicated the targets were still there, but beyond our limitations to dig any deeper.

Of course there are things as 'marketing strategies', but nothing Mineoros claims in their tests are false. Neither are any of my claims. They are backed by witnesses and some video documentation.

Dell, you live miles away from Mineoro. I live close and have visited the factory. I don't want to believe in the things you do. Again, that is your perrogative, but it is meaningless unless you have also experienced the use of the Mineoro, under the conditions of Central Florida.


But please don't emit opinions without absolute sureness.
Regards.

No! I am not an expert at tuning the Mineoro detector. it was the first time I had ever seen one. The customer had tried to tune the Minero, according to the instructions with no success, and he said his E-mails requesting advice from the California dealer, and the Mineoro, were not answered. I suggested he could drive the 50 miles to my residence and I would help if I could.

If I remember correctly, according to the instructions it said the Mineoro, would not work between the hours of 11 AM and 1 PM, because of the position of the sun. Just in reading this I knew that this was not necessarily true. As any experienced LRL/MFD user can tell you Solar affects are not regulated according to a man made time table. These products can be affected anytime day, or night by this phenomena and it can last for hours, sometimes days. The Mineoro, proved to be no exception. you can't tune the Mineoro when there is no reception signal to tune to, and Mineoro, provides no instructions, or meter, for the operator to know when the Mineoro, is going to work, and when it is not going to work. it's left to a customer's guessing game, with Mineoro's deceptive operating times disclaimer.

I do not emit this opinion without absolute surness. I do not lie. Dell