Gold Sample

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.
VerTex has more much wires but all are connected.
I have not the schematic in electronic format so i must scan my paper notes. Maybe ... one day with more free time. But as i remember it works more as dowsing than as electronic LRL. As dowsing it was good, but only for objects on air.... inside the ground it had not results.
A lot of work for nothing, yes another fraud.
But i will do again the question...... why this fraud has hidden so good 3 samples??? if someone destroy it, will see it is a fraud, so it can not be fooled by the samples.

Regards

Hi Geo...

Hahahhaaaaa

You are right...!

"A lot of work for nothing, yes another fraud".

Ok... don't waste your time to show the circuit diagram for this pachyderm excrement.

To answer your question....
The reason why Thomas Afilani hides the samples is for 2 reasons:
1. He knows some electronic engineers will open the box and see epoxy modules... He knows most of these engineers will not open them, so no problem as long is they cannot see the stupid resistors soldered together inside them.
2. He knows some people believe that Mickey Mouse and tooth fairy are real people who live in homes not too far away. And he knows these people will open the samples to see what is inside...
And when they see the colour of gold painted on resistors, they will believe this is how it detects gold.

And for other fairy tale believers who want more proof... he will have some samples of cheap jewelry hidden in the epoxy.

Now you have your answers.
Maybe you can find a second opinion which says gold that you put in epoxy in your hand will make a signal line to buried gold...
and ions of gold will float in the air and make sparks to transport all ions to the sample in your hand....
And you will easily walk to the direction of the buried treasure and recover it to become rich to have a big expensive house like the people who own the Disney studios.

Or maybe you won't find this second opinion here....

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Hi Geo,

Ver-Tex Receptor first appeared in 1991-1992 from Thomas Afilani, famous for manufacturing the Electroscope.
He is also famous for producing the DKL Lifeguard, which failed to work when he sent his best operator to show
how well it can detect people hiding behind crates for Sandia Laboratories. He could locate the hiding person every
time when he knew where he was hiding, but was never able to find him when he didn't know in advance where he was.

http://prod.sandia.gov/techlib/access-control.cgi/1998/980977.pdf

We also see what kind of electronics Thomas Afilani puts inside his LRLs in many of Carl-NC reports:

http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=reports/escope20/index.dat

http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=reports/escope/index.dat

http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=reports/escope301/index.dat

Most of the wires are not even hooked up...!
You look at what you see, and you really believe this is a working LRL?
After we read the reports that even the factory operators cannot make it work for their customer?





Read Carl's report and see photos of what he found inside the epoxy...
http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=reports/escope20/index.dat

It's a bunch of crap...!!

Tell me how this circuit can possibly work to do anything?
Nobody is stupid enough to pay money for this after they see what is inside.
This is why Thomas Afilani hides it in epoxy...!

But maybe the Ver-Tex is different, and it has a really working circuit inside...
Can you show us the Ver-Tex circuit so we can see how it works better than the other circuits Thomas Afilani sold?


Best wishes,
J_P

Hi J_P.
VerTex has more much wires but all are connected.
I have not the schematic in electronic format so i must scan my paper notes. Maybe ... one day with more free time. But as i remember it works more as dowsing than as electronic LRL. As dowsing it was good, but only for objects on air.... inside the ground it had not results.
A lot of work for nothing, yes another fraud.
But i will do again the question...... why this fraud has hidden so good 3 samples??? if someone destroy it, will see it is a fraud, so it can not be fooled by the samples.

Regards

[goldfinder]

Not Dowsing - Very interesting!

Hi goldfinder,

Geo is not talking about a dowsing rod with a sample chamber where you put gold.
He is talking about an electronic VLF loop receiver that has a sample of gold positioned in the area of the receiver coil to cause the receiver to only beep when it is pointed at the direction where gold is buried.

This has nothing to do with dowsing.
It is an electronic tuner and amplifier/filter that is adjusted to make beeps when a signal is received above an adjustable threshold.
From what I have seen so far, it does not work.
If it did work, then we would see some evidence of it working.
But we don't.

Best wishes,
J_P

JP,
Thank you for correcting me. So There is a gold sample in the receiver circuit and you say it does not work, and it is not dowsing. I have run across this many times with other "exotic" (un-orthodox) circuits that do not work when really tested and there was some kind of hokus-pokus aspect to the device that supposedly makes it work.

Still it warrants some spectrum anaylzer testing for example set up some kind of receiver between two gold coins, use a sensitive magnetic detection circuit and run the analyzer through it paces. Maybe even stimulate one of the gold coins with a frequency or a lot of frequencies. Might be a pony in all the HS.

If it was dowsing then I understand the gold as "witness" idea and have seen dowsers find samples where someone in the group knows there it is. The real goal is to find those hidden zillion we all dream of.
Goldfinder

[J_Player]

It is assuredly good enough for Dr. Hung to pounce on it and start evangelizing this as a new
pseudo scientific theory. He would probably also claim that he and his team have been working on
refining this theory and have gotten incredible results but which he can't discuss at this time.

Hmmmm...

I doubt Dr. hung will evangelize this theory, as it sounds like ordinary pseudoscience.
Dr. hung has historically only evangelized theories which leave room to diverge from pseudoscience, and enter into the realm of hungscience.

So far, only Myron Evans and Damasio have been able to rise to the diety of the occasion, when they proclaimed new theoretical adventures which took him traveling through another dimension...
a dimension not only of sight and sound... but of mind;
...a journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination.

Of course Dr. hung was also successful at convincing a number of forum members and other readers to buy his theories by spending their euros to see his magical Brazilian LRLs find gold treasures.
And they did see how good hungscience works. Today, after spending a lot of euros, we still found no signs of the substance gold DNA produces to coat the surface of the gold.
Nor have we heard back from the Mineoro factory to explain how to make these LRLs work to find treasure like we see in the videos and at the factory demonstrations.

Hmmmm.... Global Scaling... an investment scam....
"...GSDI Ltd was founded by Hartmut Müller with a Russian partner who remains unknown, in connection with the Yesilada Bank. Funds from the GSDI would be drained away to Austria...
...The activities of the GSDI in January 2011 led to a lawsuit against "Prof. Smith" and three other defendants in the District Court of Dresden. According to the indictment 2004-2009 they have cheated more than 250 investors out a of a total of six million euros..."

http://www.esowatch.com/ge/index.php?title=Global_Scaling

Wait.....
Nevermind....
There exists a good possibility Dr. hung will evangelize Global Scaling...

Best wishes,
J_P

[Rudy]

Its "Hartmut" Müller, not "Helmut", he is not really a Professor and he used his "Global Scaling" to steal Money from naive Investors.
Do your Homework and run this Article through Google Translator, its German: http://www.esowatch.com/ge/index.php...Global_Scaling
Link for the lazy: http://translate.google.de/translate...Global_Scaling
So, how trustworthy is this "Research" ?

It is assuredly good enough for Dr. Hung to pounce on it and start evangelizing this as a new
pseudo scientific theory. He would probably also claim that he and his team have been working on
refining this theory and have gotten incredible results but which he can't discuss at this time.

[Qiaozhi]

... There is a spectrum that I discovered which I call the inertial resonance spectrum. I discovered this many years ago when I was researching the so called Molecular Frequency Discriminator and the many others who got the same information that was incorporated in the MFD and similar devices.

There is a correlation with the molecular weight and an atomic inertial or gravitational "frequency". Very good dowsers can feel this energetic resonance that actually exists between similar gold samples. Research and theoretical work by Professor Helmut Mueller and his Global Scaling equations is touching on this. When the LRL user puts a gold sample in the witness chamber there is a greater "resonance" between him/her and any gold that may be in the vicinity. None of this is standard physics, electromagnetic energies, atomic particle radiation, etc.

As you have correctly stated, "None of this is standard physics, electromagnetic energies, atomic particle radiation, etc.".
In this case, nothing more needs to be said.

Its "Hartmut" Müller, not "Helmut", he is not really a Professor and he used his "Global Scaling" to steal Money from naive Investors.
Do your Homework and run this Article through Google Translator, its German: http://www.esowatch.com/ge/index.php...Global_Scaling
Link for the lazy: http://translate.google.de/translate...Global_Scaling
So, how trustworthy is this "Research" ?
Its always the same: "Global Scaling" made 6 million Euro (and got sued), Steorn sells "Free Energy", some other People sell Electronic Dowsing Rods.

Very good information.
Unfortunately some people fail to learn from other people's mistakes.

Geo is not talking about a dowsing rod with a sample chamber where you put gold.
He is talking about an electronic VLF loop receiver that has a sample of gold positioned in the area of the receiver coil to cause the receiver to only beep when it is pointed at the direction where gold is buried.

This has nothing to do with dowsing.

This is true. Geo's device does not rely on the ideomotor effect to work. Perhaps something interesting is going on here, perhaps not. The problem with the experiments performed so far is their lack of scientific rigour. The results are too subjective and can easily be explained away by a skeptical observer.
Personally I find these sort of LRL experiments to be of interest. There is nothing wrong with playing around on the fringes of science, as long as you don't get carried away and forget to do a proper analysis of the results. However, if claims are made for a device with a swinging arm, then forget it ... it's an obvious dowsing rod in disguise, like the H3 Tec gizmo for example.

[J_Player]

Hi.
I opened a Ver-Tex. Took at least 5 days to take off all accessories. I found 3 samples (2 gold and one silver) hidden too well. If it was to deceive purchasers would they place at point that seems rather a point where not being able to see it if not dissolve the device. I believe that something secret is hidden behind the samples

Regards

Hi Geo,

Ver-Tex Receptor first appeared in 1991-1992 from Thomas Afilani, famous for manufacturing the Electroscope.
He is also famous for producing the DKL Lifeguard, which failed to work when he sent his best operator to show
how well it can detect people hiding behind crates for Sandia Laboratories. He could locate the hiding person every
time when he knew where he was hiding, but was never able to find him when he didn't know in advance where he was.

http://prod.sandia.gov/techlib/access-control.cgi/1998/980977.pdf

We also see what kind of electronics Thomas Afilani puts inside his LRLs in many of Carl-NC reports:

http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=reports/escope20/index.dat

http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=reports/escope/index.dat

http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=reports/escope301/index.dat

Most of the wires are not even hooked up...!
You look at what you see, and you really believe this is a working LRL?
After we read the reports that even the factory operators cannot make it work for their customer?





Read Carl's report and see photos of what he found inside the epoxy...
http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=reports/escope20/index.dat

It's a bunch of crap...!!

Tell me how this circuit can possibly work to do anything?
Nobody is stupid enough to pay money for this after they see what is inside.
This is why Thomas Afilani hides it in epoxy...!

But maybe the Ver-Tex is different, and it has a really working circuit inside...
Can you show us the Ver-Tex circuit so we can see how it works better than the other circuits Thomas Afilani sold?


Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

Hi J_P.
I can not do all this work you say. I have neither the time nor the necessary equipment to do all these tests. I started this issue in order to see what happens to the samples using a variety of manufacturers LRL (and not just the Mineoro) as well as a variety of tests that i made i saw a different function of lrl when using samples. Of course the operation of lrl was different than expected.
As regards the money of Carl-NC ... rather this is not the issue.
I must to remind you the proposal that made Esteban .......

Regards

Hi Geo,

I do not say you should do these things.
I said I would do these things in a hypothetical make-believe story.
The reason I said I would do these things is to answer your suggestion of looking away from conventional electronics.
You should know I will not look away from conventional electronics unless I found a real reason to do that.
So far all I hear are stories, and poorly done experiments where nobody really has very much good information about the electronics inside these PDs.
I have watched real remote metal locators work in person, and I have seen the electronics that makes them work.
It is hard for me to believe somebody discovered a new type of LRL that works on the principle of magic, and electronics no longer obey the rules that we know electronic circuits follow.

Of course, you are free to believe that magic does exist, and there is no reason why you should do any careful experiments to make sure you are right about it.
It is good enough to believe without being able know how it can work or to show it working. Then you can be happy to have a working LRL that does not find treasure.

I do not expect you to make careful tests. This is only something I would do.
And I told you I would do this so you will not expect me to believe you have a magic working PD until I see something real to convince me.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Hi Geo,

You understand I am not convinced your PD is detecting gold.
But let us take a hypothetical story and consider I am to take your PD with a gold sample in the coil and test it myself with my own hands.
And I observe it to beep at gold when I point it at a gold ring far in the distance.

The first thing I will do is not to look away from conventional electronics. I will first take some measurements in the circuit with high impedance instruments to see what is different when I observe it beeping at gold than when it is not beeping and gold target is removed from the test field. I would measure every stage to see what is really changing and causing the beeps. Then I would change the coil sample to copper and make the same measurements with the gold target put in the test field and then removed. This will give me some understandable base data to begin with.

Next, I would look closely at this base data to see what is the difference in the circuit signals at different stages of the amplifier when I took readings with gold sample and with copper sample put in coil. I would be paying special attention to very small millivolt differences that could be caused by thermocouple effects, and I would also be looking for slight differences in the eddy currents to see what effect they have on the front end small signals. I would do all this in a shielded and grounded work area so there are no false readings caused by tiny noise signals from the air. This is where I think a lot of errors are made by people who try to measure small signal differences.

After I make all these measurements, then I will probably see there is a difference in eddy current response from the gold sample that was placed inside the coil B field compared to the eddy current response from the copper sample. I would also probably find difference in the impedance that the same coil saw. I suspect I might find the gold sample caused less impedance to the coil. We know a normal metal detector VLF coil can see the difference between a small copper piece and a small gold piece. If I cannot see this difference in your more sensitive amplifier, then I would think I made a serious error in grounding my test equipment.

Of course, maybe I could just say it was not important to set up good shielding and grounding at a work station to get the exact measurements of small signal variations, because I already know there is no difference to be seen. But I would not do this, because I have already found from experience, that performing these small signal tests properly will show readings that I usually do not expect from simply guessing what I think the results will be. And I find that making proper measurements will usually show what is really happening inside the circuit instead of what we think is probably happening. This is where you will find out if the PD is really detecting gold, or if something else is making it beep. If you are lucky, maybe you will discover the gold sample is not responding like we expect it to from conventional eddy current electronics and the known resistance of gold. Maybe you will see how it is actually performing to help the circuit detect gold.

Then, after actually performing test point readings throughout the circuit from a shielded and grounded work area, if I see readings which show the copper and gold samples are not responding like conventional electronics tells us eddy currents and dissimilar metal junctions behave, I will think it is time to look for some more evidence in the field.

At this point I would set up some experiments to see how far I can detect a gold target. I would first find a large flat field that shows no signals at all from the PD, and then put a gold target in the field to see how far distance the PD can detect it. I would also move the target around in the field to see if the PD also detects it at the same distance. If it works as you say, then I will sign a contract with Carl-NC to take his $25,000 prize test.
And I will be happy that I have a true working LRL that finds only gold at long distances.

But remember...
This is only a hypothetical story I wrote that never ever happened in my experience.
I never saw a gold sample cause an electronic detector to find gold.
This is only the kind of thing I read stories about -- for magic PDs that nobody can demonstrate to work to find a hidden gold target from long range. I only hear stories...

So I am happy to believe everything is all true....
Same as I am happy to read fantasy adventure stories, and watch fantasy movies at the theatre.
These are very entertaining for good reading, and for good watching at the movies,
As long as I never pay 7,500 eu to buy these fairy tales, then I will remain happy with them.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi J_P.
I can not do all this work you say. I have neither the time nor the necessary equipment to do all these tests. I started this issue in order to see what happens to the samples using a variety of manufacturers LRL (and not just the Mineoro) as well as a variety of tests that i made i saw a different function of lrl when using samples. Of course the operation of lrl was different than expected.
As regards the money of Carl-NC ... rather this is not the issue.
I must to remind you the proposal that made Esteban .......

Regards

[Geo]

Cant find in internet information about VER-TEX LRL,can you post one picture?

Hi Morgan.
Take a photo (bad quality) from the Ver_tex

Regards

[J_Player]

I believe that very few or none understand why a "witness" such as gold or silver is put in the LRLs which are basically dowsing rods. Actually the reason is quite simple. There is a spectrum that I discovered which I call the inertial resonance spectrum. I discovered this many years ago when I was researching the so called Molecular Frequency Discriminator and the many others who got the same information that was incorporated in the MFD and similar devices.

There is a correlation with the molecular weight and an atomic inertial or gravitational "frequency". Very good dowsers can feel this energetic resonance that actually exists between similar gold samples. Research and theoretical work by Professor Helmut Mueller and his Global Scaling equations is touching on this. When the LRL user puts a gold sample in the witness chamber there is a greater "resonance" between him/her and any gold that may be in the vicinity. None of this is standard physics, electromagnetic energies, atomic particle radiation, etc.

One of these days I am going to write up the research on this but right now I am too busy. I will not answer questions on this so don't ask. Do your own research. The answers exist for this very interesting topic.
Goldfinder

Hi goldfinder,

Geo is not talking about a dowsing rod with a sample chamber where you put gold.
He is talking about an electronic VLF loop receiver that has a sample of gold positioned in the area of the receiver coil to cause the receiver to only beep when it is pointed at the direction where gold is buried.

This has nothing to do with dowsing.
It is an electronic tuner and amplifier/filter that is adjusted to make beeps when a signal is received above an adjustable threshold.
From what I have seen so far, it does not work.
If it did work, then we would see some evidence of it working.
But we don't.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Götz von Berlichingen]

Its "Hartmut" Müller, not "Helmut", he is not really a Professor and he used his "Global Scaling" to steal Money from naive Investors.
Do your Homework and run this Article through Google Translator, its German: http://www.esowatch.com/ge/index.php...Global_Scaling
Link for the lazy: http://translate.google.de/translate...Global_Scaling
So, how trustworthy is this "Research" ?
Its always the same: "Global Scaling" made 6 million Euro (and got sued), Steorn sells "Free Energy", some other People sell Electronic Dowsing Rods.

[goldfinder]

Gravitational/Inertial Resonance

Hi.
I have noticed that many LRL manufacturers use samples gold or silver in the head of their LRL. Specifically I have seen such samples at all models of Mineoro, in Iconos, in the Ver-Tex in Magic_PD etc. I would like to hear your views upon this matter.

Regards

I believe that very few or none understand why a "witness" such as gold or silver is put in the LRLs which are basically dowsing rods. Actually the reason is quite simple. There is a spectrum that I discovered which I call the inertial resonance spectrum. I discovered this many years ago when I was researching the so called Molecular Frequency Discriminator and the many others who got the same information that was incorporated in the MFD and similar devices.

There is a correlation with the molecular weight and an atomic inertial or gravitational "frequency". Very good dowsers can feel this energetic resonance that actually exists between similar gold samples. Research and theoretical work by Professor Helmut Mueller and his Global Scaling equations is touching on this. When the LRL user puts a gold sample in the witness chamber there is a greater "resonance" between him/her and any gold that may be in the vicinity. None of this is standard physics, electromagnetic energies, atomic particle radiation, etc.

One of these days I am going to write up the research on this but right now I am too busy. I will not answer questions on this so don't ask. Do your own research. The answers exist for this very interesting topic.
Goldfinder

[taliesin]

i'm not goin to comment anymore on lrl's

the way i see it .there are two types of members on geotech.one that are totally convinced that these concraptions(no typo) work and others who have some vested interest in prolonging these myths for their own financial gain.i've come to the conclusion talking to either or these groups of people is like trying to tell a Jehovah's Witnesse that there is no god.so this is the last time i waste my time on this subject.end of.

[Morgan]

VER-TEX

Hi.
I opened a Ver-Tex. Took at least 5 days to take off all accessories. I found 3 samples (2 gold and one silver) hidden too well. If it was to deceive purchasers would they place at point that seems rather a point where not being able to see it if not dissolve the device. I believe that something secret is hidden behind the samples

Regards

Cant find in internet information about VER-TEX LRL,can you post one picture?