Simple question

[ivconic]

Very interesting stuff but none of it makes sense to me at all can anyone here actually explain how this system works in engineering terms or is it a science beyond human realms

That's the point!
No one of us ("skeptics") actually can't understand it either!
That's what is all this fuss about!
That's why i started this topic and asked very simple question for a start.
Because, once we do discover what kind of signal (if any) is present and "received" by common LRL device - later it would be real piece of cake to establish rules and make real working LRL device (unlikely that will ever happen)!
So, now you see!

[Qiaozhi]

Carl get ready for the incoming LRL tsunami here!

That made me chuckle!

[kt315]

I know what "electromagnetic" mean, but what mean "SUPER"?

some substance... you know it as the God
if you did learn LRL method more... I hope on that... you have to read the mantra & prayers. if you are NOT able to do that - go out from LRL, it is not yourself! the mantra and meditation are MAIN RULE in LRL leave also the drinking! you must be absoliutely teetotal in a scanning process! you see - there is NOT a place for ANY electronics!

[satdaveuk]

That's the point!
No one of us ("skeptics") actually can't understand it either!
That's what is all this fuss about!
That's why i started this topic and asked very simple question for a start.
Because, once we do discover what kind of signal (if any) is present and "received" by common LRL device - later it would be real piece of cake to establish rules and make real working LRL device (unlikely that will ever happen)!
So, now you see!

Yes I can see the light, very very long tunnel and I think there is a very small glimer of hope shall meditate tonight instead of bonking the mrs

[Carl-NC]

Time for an assignment. Please write a research paper on pseudoscience. You may choose from these topics:

http://www.physics.smu.edu/pseudo/topics.html

Goldfinder, why would Konstantin Meyl be near the top of a list of pseudoscience topics at SMU? Is he considered a crackpot?

[J_Player]

Ok, i wanted to respect your attitude and visited that link, although to tell you the truth;
usually i wouldn't do such thing because anything that starts like "spiritual..." is already having very negative contest in my mind.
And word "spiritual..." in the headline of that page is already telling us much!
Like Carl previously noticed; there is a lot of "sense" taken from regular science and mixed up with pseudo science, offered in such and similar articles.
That's why such articles are usually perfect "catch up" and decoy for most of naive and common sensed people that are about to enter the "LRL world".
OK, just pay attention on this sentence:
"...The missing experimental pieces in Meyl's theory eventually came from the work of Tesla.." !!
It's been said "eventually" !
And that puts the end on the rest of a story.
As Nikola Tesla compatriot and the one who is pretty interested in his work;
i simply don't like to see how various people tends so easy to mix his name and work with something which usually has nothing to do with.
Who the heck is Tom Bearden!?
Retired Lieutenant Colonel U.S. Army!
So?
Do i have to take him serious?
We here are also having one Retired Lieutenant Colonel named Zvonimir Jankovic, the inventor of Radijan 97 and Radijan 2001.
Already mentioned here:

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12112

So?
Just another charlatan as all those retired army people!

Hi Ivconic,

Tom Bearden is exactly as you say -- a retired army officer.
After he decided to become an important physicist and inventor, he proclaimed that he achieved these accomplishments:

He unified Physics
Revealed an exact scientifically proven method to cure cancer, leukemia and AIDS
Revealed the "fundamental" secret of over-unity
Revealed the "final secret" of free energy
Showed how to deactivate radioactive materials
Proved electromagnetism is a longitudinal phenomena like a sound wave
Proved all the fundamentals of modern EM theory are wrong
Proved that only "corroded" or "contaminated" materials are suitable for over-unity research. The worse the quality of the materials, the better
Invented a "MEG" that outputs 7-100 times the amount of input power
He feels he deserves "more than a Nobel prize" for his work listed above

The problem:
1. The math Bearden used to calculate his free power machines shows he does not understand basic textbook physics. But worse, he doesn't understand the basic math needed for measuring power, such as P = VI = V²/R and the associated AC sine wave power equations. This is understandable considering he purchased a fake PHD from Trinity College and University.
2. There is no experimental data to back up any of the above claims, and a large mass of data to suggest he is wrong in every case listed.
3. In the past 8 years since he revealed all these secrets, invented the MEG over-unity generator, and revealed the final secret of free energy, we haven't seen a single example of any of his secrets working. Where is the free power? where are the new medical tools that cure cancer, leukemia and AIDs?

See more Tom Bearden details here: http://www.nuscam.com/pdf/case_study.pdf

This is why I don't think his theories could explain the "signal" for dowsing or LRLs.


Best wishes,
J_P

[ivconic]

Hi Ivconic,

Tom Bearden is exactly as you say -- a retired army officer.
After he decided to become an important physicist and inventor, he proclaimed that he achieved these accomplishments:

He unified Physics
Revealed an exact scientifically proven method to cure cancer, leukemia and AIDS
Revealed the "fundamental" secret of over-unity
Revealed the "final secret" of free energy
Showed how to deactivate radioactive materials
Proved electromagnetism is a longitudinal phenomena like a sound wave
Proved all the fundamentals of modern EM theory are wrong
Proved that only "corroded" or "contaminated" materials are suitable for over-unity research. The worse the quality of the materials, the better
Invented a "MEG" that outputs 7-100 times the amount of input power
He feels he deserves "more than a Nobel prize" for his work listed above

The problem:
1. The math Bearden used to calculate his free power machines shows he does not understand basic textbook physics. But worse, he doesn't understand the basic math needed for measuring power, such as P = VI = V²/R and the associated AC sine wave power equations. This is understandable considering he purchased a fake PHD from Trinity College and University.
2. There is no experimental data to back up any of the above claims, and a large mass of data to suggest he is wrong in every case listed.
3. In the past 8 years since he revealed all these secrets, invented the MEG over-unity generator, and revealed the final secret of free energy, we haven't seen a single example of any of his secrets working. Where is the free power? where are the new medical tools that cure cancer, leukemia and AIDs?

See more Tom Bearden details here: http://www.nuscam.com/pdf/case_study.pdf

This is why I don't think his theories could explain the "signal" for dowsing or LRLs.


Best wishes,
J_P

Oh man!
That really made me laugh!
...
My question: "Who the heck is Tom Bearden!?" was rhetorical.
Of course i do understand the man was a crackpot!
It is so obvious even on a skim look.
I also mentioned our Serbian " Tom Bearden" - Zvonimir Jankovic, also retired army officer and also enthusiast on such matters (other words - a crackpot).
...
Internet is dangerous, you know?
Because we, the laymen, can be easily fooled reading similar articles as Bearden's etc..
Nowdays any crackpot may appear on the internet and post anything that he likes.
Bearden is, no doubt, literate guy and can fool somebody easily with his "deeply profound" articles. No doubt in that.
I, myself, also was "victim" so many times in the past, reading some "profound" and "serious" articles by some people.
But that's the beauty of places like this forum: we gather here, we talk, exchange opinions and experiences ... = we learn!
Only restive people will refuse to learn from debates like this one, but that's their problem.
Cheers!

[ivconic]

Time for an assignment. Please write a research paper on pseudoscience. You may choose from these topics:

http://www.physics.smu.edu/pseudo/topics.html

Goldfinder, why would Konstantin Meyl be near the top of a list of pseudoscience topics at SMU? Is he considered a crackpot?

This catches my eye:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/2785580/Woman-beats-cancer-with-mistletoe.html

I really doubt that cancer can be cured with Mistletoe.
I bet there were several parallel factors which helped that woman to cure.
...
Anyway, i do know something else about Mistletoe.
My neighbor completely regulated blood pressure with Mistletoe in just 3-4 months.
Was not miracle to be considered as one.
Each morning he drinks a glass of Mistletoe tea.. and that was all.
After 3-4 months his blood analyzes showed perfect condition.
....
Maybe i slipped a bit off topic (sorry) but since i am talking about such things; i would also like to mention Ganoderma Lucidum fungus.
Not miracle cure for every possible disease - but surely pretty interesting and effective for improving mans health.
....
Back to topic,
wow! Carl that link is really interesting!
I think i will laugh much tonight!
Cheers!

[ivconic]

Reason i am mixing in LRL subjects is not because of my huge love upon argues, God no!
But simply because i would like to see how LRL people are really thinking?
What is the motif to some of them being so persistent?
Occasional success? I doubt that.
Commercial motifs? Yes, that's the case at some of them, but not to all of them.
Illiteracy and ignorance? No, i don't think so, because most of LRL people i met are pretty literate and educated up to some level.
So what should be the motif?
Do they really believe that much?
If we took dowsing as guessing game (essentially it is) than rate of success ideally can be 50% : 50 % (wish only, reality is more rude than that).
So, i was wandering all the time about their inner thoughts about other 50% (in reality barely 10% of good guesses, if we talk serious)?
How they explaining self such bad success rate?
That's what i wanted to hear from them.
Because i do know and understand my own (bad or good) success rate with my detectors.
When i have bad luck with my detectors; i do try to find a reason for that.
And usually i manage to find it.
Either is poor detector, or poor working conditions, weather conditions, poor terrain...etc..etc..
But how to self explain bad luck if you are dowser?
That's what i wanted to know, among other things!

[ivconic]

I have few friends, dowsers.
I like to talk with them and try to persuade them to give up of such nonsense.
Also i am following their success rate. It is more than poor.
But, fact is that each one of those do have (and carry with) one conventional md, just in any case!
So if they miss to locate something by dowsing, there is always good old md to continue with.
None of those can explain more soberly what they are doing with dowsing.
They "feel" something, but what? Nobody can explain soberly.
And 99% of their targets are never discovered.
Various reasons for that: too deep, too unclear "signal"...etc..etc..
"Who's gonna dig such deep hole now?" - most favorite excuse!
"There are no conditions now, at the moment, but surely we will return back soon, with proper tools, and we will dig it out!"
It is fun to watch those people.
It is fun to talk with them.
Yet none of those can't explain what kind of "signal" they are "receiving" when dowsing.
Most recent case is one friend with Ranger Teller.
Pretty cool guy, educated well, smart... yet to much "believer", if you ask me.
He is locating dozen "strong signals" each time we go outdoor.
I tried so hard to pull out from him recognition that RT was a piece of crap and nothing else, yet i haven't success!
No matter i explained to him that nothing revolutionary and secret is going on in that funny calculator, nor in few nonsense wired components inside RT box - no success.
"There is some process that's going on, yet" - he says!
And at the same time he is unable to explain and elaborate!
Along with him , there are 4-5 friends more.
All those are constantly pushing me to "rethink and reconsider" all the "technique" and knowledge i have and to involve my self in making "something that will work more better"!
I tried, i made Zahori's for each one of those, although first i explained them what is Zahori.
I made dozen other nonsense devices and apparatuses.
Each one of those i made is "working" ... by them!
But "it is not complete accurate, must be that there is a way to do it a bit better.."!
I am not taking no money for granted nor based on frauds and lies.
Each time i get such demand, i do perform long patience talk, trying to persuade them to give up.
Also i do backup my efforts with all possible arguments that i have against dowsing.
Yet... no benefit from such my efforts...!?
So, they want something to achieve... only they don't know how! Neither than me!
They "feel" something... only they don't know what is it! Neither than me!
Rate of their success is more than devastating, yet they don't give up!
So.. how to be smart about this "human phenomena" !?

[J_Player]

I have few friends, dowsers.
I like to talk with them and try to persuade them to give up of such nonsense.
Also i am following their success rate. It is more than poor.
But, fact is that each one of those do have (and carry with) one conventional md, just in any case!
So if they miss to locate something by dowsing, there is always good old md to continue with.
None of those can explain more soberly what they are doing with dowsing.
They "feel" something, but what? Nobody can explain soberly.
And 99% of their targets are never discovered.
Various reasons for that: too deep, too unclear "signal"...etc..etc..
"Who's gonna dig such deep hole now?" - most favorite excuse!
"There are no conditions now, at the moment, but surely we will return back soon, with proper tools, and we will dig it out!"
It is fun to watch those people.
It is fun to talk with them.
Yet none of those can't explain what kind of "signal" they are "receiving" when dowsing.
Most recent case is one friend with Ranger Teller.
Pretty cool guy, educated well, smart... yet to much "believer", if you ask me.
He is locating dozen "strong signals" each time we go outdoor.
I tried so hard to pull out from him recognition that RT was a piece of crap and nothing else, yet i haven't success!
No matter i explained to him that nothing revolutionary and secret is going on in that funny calculator, nor in few nonsense wired components inside RT box - no success.
"There is some process that's going on, yet" - he says!
And at the same time he is unable to explain and elaborate!
Along with him , there are 4-5 friends more.
All those are constantly pushing me to "rethink and reconsider" all the "technique" and knowledge i have and to involve my self in making "something that will work more better"!
I tried, i made Zahori's for each one of those, although first i explained them what is Zahori.
I made dozen other nonsense devices and apparatuses.
Each one of those i made is "working" ... by them!
But "it is not complete accurate, must be that there is a way to do it a bit better.."!
I am not taking no money for granted nor based on frauds and lies.
Each time i get such demand, i do perform long patience talk, trying to persuade them to give up.
Also i do backup my efforts with all possible arguments that i have against dowsing.
Yet... no benefit from such my efforts...!?
So, they want something to achieve... only they don't know how! Neither than me!
They "feel" something... only they don't know what is it! Neither than me!
Rate of their success is more than devastating, yet they don't give up!
So.. how to be smart about this "human phenomena" !?

If I dowsed to find an ancient treasure where a king buried 40 tons of gold statues 30 meters deep, I would not waste my time proving that my dowsing works.
Who would want to dig for 30 meters deep?
You would need to buy ladders and other supplies for going in the hole you dig and you could become injured during the excavation.
Then what if the sides of the hole cave in and bury you?

It is a much happier idea to feel good that you detected 40 tons of gold statues and know your dowsing works.
All will be happy if there is no skeptic nearby.

Best wishes,
J_P

[ivconic]

If I dowsed to find an ancient treasure where a king buried 40 tons of gold statues 30 meters deep, I would not waste my time proving that my dowsing works.
Who would want to dig for 30 meters deep?
You would need to buy ladders and other supplies for going in the hole you dig and you could become injured during the excavation.
Then what if the sides of the hole cave in and bury you?

It is a much happier idea to feel good that you detected 40 tons of gold statues and know your dowsing works.
All will be happy if there is no skeptic nearby.

Best wishes,
J_P

Indeed,seems so!
Fisherman tales are always better than living fish!
Anyway, apart from their "dark LRL side" if their minds; those are nice people to be friend with. And funny too!
But time came when various "Zahori's...RT's...etc..etc.." are not enough no more!
Lately i am faced with numerous demands to "discover something more accurate" , no matter the costs!
Last thing i done was setup that looks like Omnitron.. or Radijan2001.
For less than 180e i bought this:

http://www.ldbwebtronics.com/newfusige0vc.html

and had to make pretty annoying accu setup in separate enclosure, because VC2002 is having 2x18V + 1x9v supply!
Had to arrange 12v+6v(18v) + 6v+12v(18v) and one separate 12v(via 7809).
Problem was in how to charge those gell cells with one 12v automatic charger.
And also not to take them out from enclosure each time when need to be recharged!?
So i figured it out and decided to have 4x "12v" to be charged one by one!
That's why i use those two 6v, so i could (with rotary switch 1x12) "make" one 12v from two 6v , when is about to be charged!
Sheeeesh! So annoying it was to wire up whole arrangement!
So, than i achieved battery operated VC2002.
At it's output 2 probes were added, ground probes (antennas).
So that presents complete "TX". Adjustable amplitude, freq, shape and cycle rate!
"RX" part is mentioned RT!
What can i do?
It's not mine to "think" - but to work! So i did it!
Will see soon if there is positive feedback!
...
P.S.
Ain't life beautiful!?

[J_Player]

Indeed,seems so!
Fisherman tales are always better than living fish!
Anyway, apart from their "dark LRL side" if their minds; those are nice people to be friend with. And funny too!
But time came when various "Zahori's...RT's...etc..etc.." are not enough no more!
Lately i am faced with numerous demands to "discover something more accurate" , no matter the costs!
Last thing i done was setup that looks like Omnitron.. or Radijan2001.
For less than 180e i bought this:

http://www.ldbwebtronics.com/newfusige0vc.html

and had to make pretty annoying accu setup in separate enclosure, because VC2002 is having 2x18V + 1x9v supply!
Had to arrange 12v+6v(18v) + 6v+12v(18v) and one separate 12v(via 7809).
Problem was in how to charge those gell cells with one 12v automatic charger.
And also not to take them out from enclosure each time when need to be recharged!?
So i figured it out and decided to have 4x "12v" to be charged one by one!
That's why i use those two 6v, so i could (with rotary switch 1x12) "make" one 12v from two 6v , when is about to be charged!
Sheeeesh! So annoying it was to wire up whole arrangement!
So, than i achieved battery operated VC2002.
At it's output 2 probes were added, ground probes (antennas).
So that presents complete "TX". Adjustable amplitude, freq, shape and cycle rate!
"RX" part is mentioned RT!
What can i do?
It's not mine to "think" - but to work! So i did it!
Will see soon if there is positive feedback!
...
P.S.
Ain't life beautiful!?

What?
You made a battery power VC2002?

Do you have any idea what this is worth in the MFD community?
Your modified VC2002 is the only VC2002 that can be taken in the field for finding amazing treasures.

This VC2002 is more valuable than winning the Carl-NC LRL prize.
You can be rich!
Do you know you can sell this battery VC2002 to people in the UK who want to buy LRLs?
But be sure to include a free LRL that they can connect to it...
Check recent forum posts from people in the UK who want to buy LRLs to see who you should contact.

Best wishes,
J_P

[wam]

"what kind of signal exactly you are dealing with?
What are the features of such "signal"? "

Yes, I am LRL enthusiast, and with relaxation dedicate some of my life time to have a brake and read or watch something mysteries. With satisfaction analyze strange electronic circuits etc … It is a good brake and escape from professional electronics and since. So let it be, but for me it is not acceptable to misled naïve people and take advantage from their ignorance for financial benefits. Yet I can accept sellout of astrological formulas to predict the future events because it has been declared by since and society as kind of “art” and no one who paid fortune for such prediction will have hard fillings that it does not work. We should do the same with LRL and reserve for it in human reality its own class.
It is OK that LRL is surrounded by mystery and “secret technology” – if You pay for it, the significant value of this product is excitement delivered by the nature of this secrecy.
LRL happened to develop its own scientific terminology, I have seen similar in so call “fact finding” books abut Startrek or Star Wars. This is what LRL is, accept it, enjoy it but make it honest. It has been known that Jedi can not open the door using The Force but my son always enjoy me doing it every time when passing via automatic sliding door.
If You, LRL boys want to be respected and promote so call LRL reality You must be HONEST and do it with fun and do it friendly. In return, other people you will be giving contribution and assistance. Many imaginary facts from Startrek or Star Wars became scientific later on.
So to show you a little respect I will try some possible answers for this simple question.
It is fact that every mass produce gravity forces and since the earth is in motion it will manifest itself as gravity wave. I believe that gravity forces originated by berried coins or gold are not detectable yet by humans technology.
All conductive material is influencing electro magnetic fields and generates forces. Low frequency have nature to propagate over extremely long distance and it is very hard to detect it (submarines have technology to recognize and locate sources of this kind of spectrum). Yet I believe that human technology can not separate this signals over a small and week targets. But to bust some inspiration for LRLs I can say that pigeons can sense and locate origin of spectrum for very low frequency waves but with my understanding the location of this signal is giving unique spectrum due to the target being in motion. I think that even pigeon would have a problem to detect object under ground.
In addition every conductive object influence static electric fields, yet this influence of electric forces is so small that it is not available for practical devices.
LRL findings of treasure in big proportion operates via practice of digging. If no LRL then it will be no motivation for many people to go out and dig. If no digging then no finding.

[J_Player]

"what kind of signal exactly you are dealing with?
What are the features of such "signal"? "

Yes, I am LRL enthusiast, and with relaxation dedicate some of my life time to have a brake and read or watch something mysteries. With satisfaction analyze strange electronic circuits etc … It is a good brake and escape from professional electronics and since. So let it be, but for me it is not acceptable to misled naïve people and take advantage from their ignorance for financial benefits. Yet I can accept sellout of astrological formulas to predict the future events because it has been declared by since and society as kind of “art” and no one who paid fortune for such prediction will have hard fillings that it does not work. We should do the same with LRL and reserve for it in human reality its own class.
It is OK that LRL is surrounded by mystery and “secret technology” – if You pay for it, the significant value of this product is excitement delivered by the nature of this secrecy.
LRL happened to develop its own scientific terminology, I have seen similar in so call “fact finding” books abut Startrek or Star Wars. This is what LRL is, accept it, enjoy it but make it honest. It has been known that Jedi can not open the door using The Force but my son always enjoy me doing it every time when passing via automatic sliding door.
If You, LRL boys want to be respected and promote so call LRL reality You must be HONEST and do it with fun and do it friendly. In return, other people you will be giving contribution and assistance. Many imaginary facts from Startrek or Star Wars became scientific later on.
So to show you a little respect I will try some possible answers for this simple question.
It is fact that every mass produce gravity forces and since the earth is in motion it will manifest itself as gravity wave. I believe that gravity forces originated by berried coins or gold are not detectable yet by humans technology.
All conductive material is influencing electro magnetic fields and generates forces. Low frequency have nature to propagate over extremely long distance and it is very hard to detect it (submarines have technology to recognize and locate sources of this kind of spectrum). Yet I believe that human technology can not separate this signals over a small and week targets. But to bust some inspiration for LRLs I can say that pigeons can sense and locate origin of spectrum for very low frequency waves but with my understanding the location of this signal is giving unique spectrum due to the target being in motion. I think that even pigeon would have a problem to detect object under ground.
In addition every conductive object influence static electric fields, yet this influence of electric forces is so small that it is not available for practical devices.
LRL findings of treasure in big proportion operates via practice of digging. If no LRL then it will be no motivation for many people to go out and dig. If no digging then no finding.

Hi wam,
Of course all electronic engineers like to take time to think of fantasy things like star wars to escape from the rigors of providing workable answers to electronic problems.
But in this topic, Ivconic is asking for people to tell him what is the nature if this signal which dowsers and LRL users tell him they are detecting.
If you scroll up to the top you will see this topic is asking:

when you deal with so called Long Range Locating, dowsing or whatever -
what kind of signal exactly you are dealing with?
What are the features of such "signal"?

You can see Ivconic is asking for people to provide answers to tell what is the LRL signal.
If you search the forum, you will find that some LRL enthusiasts have already given their answers to tell us exactly what is this signal line:

"Resonance to the elements subatomic levels when a carrier signal line is shot and returned"

"Gold is the most powerful 'self defensive' metal when it comes to avoid any harm to its structure, such as rust, oxidation, etc. Its DNA produces a substance which coats the metal to fight against those 'threats'."

"You think of voltage as a potential. It's not only a potential, but also a flow as electromotive force".

"the human body has it's own very sensitive detection system known as the human energy field or what some call the aura"

"intensity of ionic fields and best times for it to manifest is not a limitation of the detector itself"

"I've heard the signal line will sort of burn into the ground and not dissapate for days if too much power is used. Don't know this for a fact, but I have experienced a residual effect on some days."

"Here again you should read "Supersensonics" to get an idea of what you are even dealing with. Hills is absolutely the most knowledgable person on the subject. Even if you can't understand his concepts, read through it anyway. Some day the light will come on. Of course if you can'ty locate in the first place (negative attitude/skeptic) you probably will be totally lost. Again, remember the signal line acts as an antenna. "

""Physical Dowsing" detects the stronger emenating "fields" at the surface of the earth which are layered over weaker "fields", over weaker "fields" etc, etc."

Somehow, these explanations describe what is the LRL signal for people who have their mind open to accept them.

If you know some new answers to what is this signal, then this is where Ivconic wants to hear your new ideas.
Fantasy things like Star Wars is also a good idea for explaining dowsing and LRL signals if there is no other workable way you can think of to explain it.
The theories how LRL works that I posted above are only a few examples I found in this forum.
There are many other theories you can also find in this forum to explain the signal of LRLs.

Best wishes,
J_P