Testing for signal lines

[Carl-NC]

"MFD"-type LRLs typically have a signal generator for (supposedly) transmitting a signal of some sort that (supposedly) resonates with a desirable buried target. The signal is usually injected into the ground using a pair of ground probes, and detected using dowsing rods.

The purpose of this thread is to explore ways in which this theory can be both subjectively and objectively tested. Yes, I have a proposal which I'll get to, but I would like this to be open to everyone's input, to see what other ideas come out.

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Question #1...

When a person buys an MFD, how would they normally test the device?

Or, how would a manufacturer normally demonstrate an MFD?
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I'll try to dig up whatever product manuals I have, to see what they suggest.

- Carl

P.S. -- Those who don't want to participate in this discussion, need not reply at all. Stay on topic -- attempts to hijack this thread will simply be deleted.

[Clondike Clad]

signal lines

I will like to learn about the so all signal lines.
I would like to learn WHAT KIND OF SIGNAL GOLD AND PAPER MONEY GIVE OFF. So let us all learn about the signal lines.
One question I have is what frequency the cosmic ray is. 100,000,000,000,000 hz or more or is it VLF.
or is it RF. IR, or what?
What is the output power .00001 nanowatt or less.
How it it detected. broad band or a tight fixed detections
How it the pickup anntena tuned .
Well I am not that smart but I hope others can help.
let us get this post rolling

[Carl-NC]

While some people believe that gold and other objects radiate signals on their own, and that these signals can be detected with, say, dowsing rods, MFD theory does not necessarily claim that. The basic tenet of MFD is that the signal from the transmitter radiates outward and resonates with a frequency-compatible target. This establishes a "signal line" that can be tracked with dowsing rods. This does not require that objects radiate on their own.

- Carl

[Dell Winders]

Yes, please tell us, Carl, How does radiate apply to Frequency Discrimination? Dell

[Clondike Clad]

size of item will have a effect on frequency

Gold silver etc size will effect it frequency.
the question is what is the frequency of the items detected?????????
Items are of many shapes and sizes????????????????????????????????

[Carl-NC]

Gold silver etc size will effect it frequency.
the question is what is the frequency of the items detected?????????
Items are of many shapes and sizes????????????????????????????????

I agree that shape, size and exact composition could have strong effects on a theoretical resonance frequency. But for the purpose of this discussion, let's say it doesn't matter because, in the world of MFD, these issues are not accounted for.

Ferinstance, an MFD might have a setting for "gold". That setting produces a particular frequency that will supposedly resonate with a gold target, regardless of its shape, size, or alloy.

The question is, how would you demonstrate this device? How do dealers demonstrate them? How do buyers practice with them?

- Carl

[hung]

There's a missing link.
All manufacturers of MFDs are right in some extent.
I discovered aditional information which I can't talk of now.

I am currently working with a project team which is covering all that. Our goal is to develop an LRL system based on frequencies and also on what we're discovering, which will hopefully adress all the insuficient information and consequently, technology, which turn current devices not completely reliable and akin of perfect working.

Our problem is time to devote to this. We are all busy in different jobs. However, I am proud to have back now as a consultant, the nuclear physicist who was with me in 1994 in a scientific project. He's a true genius.

In a few days I will post a topic covering this.

[Clondike Clad]

particular frequency

Ok if gold has a particular frequency we need to find that frequency.
LRL makers don't use the same frequency for gold.silver, money etc
So do the LRL circuit have anything to do with that particular frequency of gold etc.
Do LRL Circuits pick up parts of the particular frequency of the item being detected.
Do some of the LRL makers take the signal the using a IF frequency to find tune the particular frequency of item being detected.
It look as if we need to find what frequency that is being detected.

[hung]

I agree that shape, size and exact composition could have strong effects on a theoretical resonance frequency. - Carl

It's the opposite.
Shape, size and composition are consequence and not cause of specific frequencies.

[Qiaozhi]

"MFD"-type LRLs typically have a signal generator for (supposedly) transmitting a signal of some sort that (supposedly) resonates with a desirable buried target. The signal is usually injected into the ground using a pair of ground probes, and detected using dowsing rods.

The purpose of this thread is to explore ways in which this theory can be both subjectively and objectively tested. Yes, I have a proposal which I'll get to, but I would like this to be open to everyone's input, to see what other ideas come out.

-----------
Question #1...

When a person buys an MFD, how would they normally test the device?

Or, how would a manufacturer normally demonstrate an MFD?
-----------

I'll try to dig up whatever product manuals I have, to see what they suggest.

- Carl

P.S. -- Those who don't want to participate in this discussion, need not reply at all. Stay on topic -- attempts to hijack this thread will simply be deleted.

Here's some words from the "master" on this subject:
How Do I Make Sure I Can Use an MFD With Success?

by Dell Winders

http://www.omnitron.net/success.htm

That should be a good starting point for discussion on MFDs.
Also, if you look at the front page here: http://www.omnitron.net/ under the part entitled "Background Information", there is an overview of how to best use these devices.

If you're looking for an experiment that (supposedly) "proves" these devices actually work, then try this -> http://www.rangertell.com/tales10.htm
Not really sure if you would strictly class the Examiner as an MFD or not, but I've seen that it has an MFD mode of operation.

[Rudy]

"MFD"-type LRLs typically have a signal generator for (supposedly) transmitting a signal of some sort that (supposedly) resonates with a desirable buried target. The signal is usually injected into the ground using a pair of ground probes, and detected using dowsing rods.

The purpose of this thread is to explore ways in which this theory can be both subjectively and objectively tested. Yes, I have a proposal which I'll get to, but I would like this to be open to everyone's input, to see what other ideas come out.

Ok Carl,

It seems to me that one of the first things to do is to ascertain the nature of the resonance being detected. In other words, what is the nature of the resonance?

There are several resonances possible and we need to explre and identify which one is used in this method of detection. Here are a couple of electrical resonances that come to mind. Maybe there are others?

At the macro level, a possible electrical resonant frequency is dependent on the object's inductance and capacitance (or if you come at it from the physics side, the object's permeability and permitivity). In other words, the target can be looked at as a resonant tank circuit with a resonant frequency given by its capacitance and inductance. The geometrical properties of the target (size and shape) have a great effect on this type of resonance, thus there is no "one frequency fits all shapes" for any particular metal.

Next, we could look at the quantum level or Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR). At this level we are looking at the spin angular momentum of an atom's nucleus. There isn't any angular momentum unless there are an odd number of nucleons (protons and or neutrons), so not all elements have angular momentum and therefore detectable by NMR. If there are an odd number of nucleons, then the spin is either +1/2 or -1/2 depending on orientation.

A problem with detecting this type of resonant frequency, on gold or anything else, is that the target (the gold) must be immersed in a very strong magnetic field so that all the nuclei in the material are lined up in parallel or anti-parallel with the applied magnetic field. This is a magnetic field very much larger that the earth's field, typically tens of thousands of Gauss.

Why is this strong magnetic field needed you may ask? Because if the nuclei weren't aligned, you would get no useful signal. Quite simply, there would be an equal population of atoms with a spin state of +1/2 and -1/2 and their signals would cancel out.

After the nucleus are aligned, then we can pulse irradiate the sample with an RF energy at the NMR resonant frequency and presumably make a detection.

Unfortunately, it is not even that simple. In solids, the orientation of the crystal lattice leads to anisotropic shiedling effects producing a whole smear of resonances, depending on the lattice orientation. In an NMR laboratory, this effect is circumvented by spinning the sample around a specific plane at pretty high angular velocity (18000 to 25000 RPMs), but this is hardly doable in the hunting fields.

In conclusion:
Macro level resonant frequency techniques are very dependent on the target's geometry as it affects the inductance and capacitance of the sample, thus not providing a unique signature for a specific metal type.

NMR techniques seem outside of the capabilities of the field detection equipment under discussion for the reasons given above.

Are there any other types of resonances that could be looked at?

[Carl-NC]

You guys are missing the bigger picture.

It doesn't matter how this resonance stuff (supposedly) works. The manufacturer claims it works. We'll go with that.

The manufacturer's product (supposedly) transmits some kind of signal, at some frequency, that (supposedly) detects gold. Doesn't matter what it is. We'll assume it's right.

So here I am, with my brand new MFD... I want to give it a try, see if I can really make it work... what should I do?

What do MFD owners usually do to test their new purchase?

How would a dealer demonstrate the device?

What would they do?

- Carl

[Jim]

"What would they do?"

Find it, but not dig it up?

[Clondike Clad]

transmits some kind of signal, at some frequency

The manufacturer's product (supposedly) transmits some kind of signal, at some frequency, that (supposedly) detects gold. Doesn't matter what it is. We'll assume it's right.

- Carl

Now how do we know what signal and frequency to use.??
Do we get the infomation from the manufacture's product or do we ask them.

[Esteban]

Are there any other types of resonances that could be looked at?


I'm thinking in molecular vibration of each material. Each metal has particular atomic (or molecular) vibration. Use harmonic of these very high vibration frequency and go!