Testing for signal lines

[hung]

More spice in the cooking

Are there any other types of resonances that could be looked at?


I'm thinking in molecular vibration of each material. Each metal has particular atomic (or molecular) vibration. Use harmonic of these very high vibration frequency and go!

Yes. This is more or less what Rangertell states. Only it's subatomic vibration. If this gets free out ot the 'macro' analysis and enters the micro one, it will be better understood. Also it's not resonance indeed. But true broadcasting.

By the way, I'm not wishing to raise controversy here, but I received a call today from a friend who lives in another state. He told me he bought an examiner about 2 weeks ago and he's delighted with the device. He said he could find an object hidden by his friend several times and could 'feel' the signal lines when crossing it. I already adressed him tests to gather more information.

[Qiaozhi]

Question #1...

When a person buys an MFD, how would they normally test the device?

Or, how would a manufacturer normally demonstrate an MFD?

Hi Carl,

According to Question #1 in your original post (see above) you asked how a manufacturer would normally demonstrate an MFD.
Is Dell Winders' explanation not one possible answer?
i.e. How Do I Make Sure I Can Use an MFD With Success?

http://www.omnitron.net/success.htm

Or - are you directly asking any MFD owners reading this thread how they went about testing their new purchases?

I assume you are trying to establish a set of agreed tests. ??

[Carl-NC]

Now how do we know what signal and frequency to use.??
Do we get the infomation from the manufacture's product or do we ask them.

Yes, and we assume it's valid.

Is Dell Winders' explanation not one possible answer?
i.e. How Do I Make Sure I Can Use an MFD With Success?

http://www.omnitron.net/success.htm

Or - are you directly asking any MFD owners reading this thread how they went about testing their new purchases?

I assume you are trying to establish a set of agreed tests. ??

Dell's page apparently suggests a dowsing experiment you can try to determine if you might be compatible with an MFD. It doesn't really suggest any methods for testing an MFD itself.

Basically, I'm asking anyone -- MFD owner or not -- how you might test an MFD. Or even practice with it.

Here's a similar question... you've just bought a new metal detector... the manufacturer claims it will detect gold and only gold, and nothing else, at average expected depths (inches)... What might you do to test this new detector?

- Carl

[Dell Winders]

oooh! Sneaky!

[hung]

Revival?

Interesting...
All the answers Carl needs might lie elsewhere.
This subject of signal lines, etc. was all discussed in the old Tnet forum several years ago. At the time, Ranger from Rangertell tried to make his points and was bashed by Carl and others. As usual, atacks among pro and and non pro LRLs also happened.
Is a feeling of 'nostalgia' starting to hover around here?

[Qiaozhi]

Here's a similar question... you've just bought a new metal detector... the manufacturer claims it will detect gold and only gold, and nothing else, at average expected depths (inches)... What might you do to test this new detector?
- Carl

OK - I think this makes things a lot clearer.
If I was going to test my brand new shiny metal detector to see how it performs, I would first carry out an air test on various items and record the detection distance for each.
Next I would set up a test garden with some items buried at known depths, and again see how the detector performs.
Thirdly I would take the detector out on a field trip.
Presumably the same testing procedure could be used for an MFD, but with a some slight variation. Instead of checking between ferrous and nonferrous items, you would check between gold and everything else.

[Dell Winders]

You wouldn't read the instructions and devote practice to learning how to use your detector before you started testing it? Wow!

[Dell Winders]

You wouldn't read the instructions and devote practice to learning how to use your detector before you started testing it? Wow! You're smart!

[Clondike Clad]

Let us stay on topic .

"MFD"-type P.S. -- Those who don't want to participate in this discussion, need not reply at all. Stay on topic -- attempts to hijack this thread will simply be deleted.

Carl delete the junk we want to stay on the topic.
Some are not on the topic. Let us keep this clean and on topic.

[Carl-NC]

OK - I think this makes things a lot clearer.
If I was going to test my brand new shiny metal detector to see how it performs, I would first carry out an air test on various items and record the detection distance for each.
Next I would set up a test garden with some items buried at known depths, and again see how the detector performs.
Thirdly I would take the detector out on a field trip.
Presumably the same testing procedure could be used for an MFD, but with a some slight variation. Instead of checking between ferrous and nonferrous items, you would check between gold and everything else.

Ahhh... how simple! YES! In order to test your shiny new detector, you might turn the durned thing on, and wave some targets near the coil. See if it beeps for gold. See if it ignores everything else*.

What might you do with a brand new MFD? Why, you might take it outside, plant a test target, turn the durned thing on, and see it you can "find" the target.

OK, back to the metal detector...

Suppose you don't turn it on... huh? Yes, you don't turn it on... you wave some targets near the coil... what results would you expect? What results would you get?

- Carl

*All the while, you have no idea how the metal detector works, and you have no idea what frequency it uses. You just set it up according to the directions.

[Clondike Clad]

what frequebxy and power

Ok what frequency and output power for the signal lines sand how do we detct it.
If we inject a signal into the ground how do the L rods pick them up and how do we know it is picking them up.????????????????????
At this time I can't get any LRL to work or picl up any signal.
If we can generte a signal we can detector it. but what signal?????????

[Qiaozhi]

Suppose you don't turn it on... huh? Yes, you don't turn it on... you wave some targets near the coil... what results would you expect? What results would you get?

- Carl

Not quite sure what you're aiming for with this question - BUT - I wouldn't expect anything to happen, and there wouldn't be any result.

You wouldn't read the instructions and devote practice to learning how to use your detector before you started testing it? Wow! You're smart!

Of course, it goes without saying that I would actually have read the manual first. And yes - I would do an air test before testing outside.

*All the while, you have no idea how the metal detector works, and you have no idea what frequency it uses. You just set it up according to the directions.

That might seem silly, but that's true for most metal detector users. In fact, despite Dell's ridiculous comment earlier, many users don't even try to read the manual.

[Seden]

NMR, RF Frequency of gold+Gamma Ray

Klondike,

Esteban I feel has it right in detecting a harmonic of the frequency of gold. German Physicist Dr. Paul E. Dobler's test showed to be 1.2mm or around 240GHZ.
The NMR frequency of gold is given as 1.729MHZ for the particular strength of the earths magnetic field,but as pointed out with the present state of the art is undetectable.

And then there's the gamma signature that Bickel used successfully which after doing a little Google searching found out last night I've got to spend several tens of thousands of dollars to acquire a gamma spectrometer. When I get my Uranium, I will still use it to highlight the gold and see if I can see any differance on an oscilloscope connected to the audio output on my cheap gamma detector (pulse width).

So there you have it,take your pick.

Randy

[Clondike Clad]

240ghz

harmonic of the frequency of gold. German Physicist Dr. Paul E. Dobler's test showed to be 1.2mm or around 240GHZ.
----------------------------------------------------------------
AT THAT FREQUENCY LRL ANTENNA would be a very hi Z
How would a radio antenna pick up a 240 ghz signal?????
also the circuit for that signal.
I look at some LRL circuits and well you get the point.
I'm lost on the 240 ghz with the LRL circuits i have seen.
It must be something else going on.

[Carl-NC]

Not quite sure what you're aiming for with this question - BUT - I wouldn't expect anything to happen, and there wouldn't be any result.

Now we are really making progress.

I've found that if you don't turn the metal detector on, rather amazingly it won't respond to targets. I was out hunting with a Tesoro one time... it runs in a "silent search" mode... at some point in digging a difficult target I turned it off... when I resumed detecting I forgot to turn it back on. It was when I went over a visible target that I realized... errr... duh.

OK, now back to the MFD.

Do MFDs behave the same way? That is, if I fail to turn it on, will it fail to respond?

Once upon a time, I was with some LRLers who were doing some testing with an MFD. At one point, as one person went out to look for the hidden target, I flipped the transmitter off. Still, he got his "hits" and tracked his "signal line" and never once suspected the transmitter was off. Everything was working as he expected. Before he returned, I flipped the transmitter back on. Then a second person went out to look for the hidden target, and I left the transmitter on. He wandered around a while, and finally looked over and asked me if the transmitter was still turned on. Why, yes, it was.

Once upon another time, I was with an E-scope user who was "scoping" an area for a suspected cache. He was getting a hit over here, and another hit over there, and was triangulating and whatever else... after 10 or 15 minutes of all this, he looked at his E-scope and realized he forgot to turn the durned thing on. All the while it was operating as he expected it to.

So does an MFD really behave differently when it is turned off? Perhaps only if the user is aware of it. If the MFD user knows the device is turned on, he will get the response he expects. If he knows it is turned off (or, perhaps suspects it has been turned off!), he will not get the response he expects.

We could do an experiment where the MFD user attempts to locate a signal line while knowing the state of the transmitter. This is a subjective test. MFD users have told me that they can definitely tell whether the transmitter is turned on or off, but my experiences tell me they cannot, unless they already know.

If this is the case, then either the so-called signal line does not really exist, or L-rods are an ineffective means of detecting it.

Next question...

What sort of experiment could we perfom that objectively tests the MFD user's ability to tell whether the transmitter is turned on or off?

- Carl