some cosiderations

[J_Player]

Hi Qiaozhi,

Behind all this pissing contest, there was some real science presented in the LRL forum. Have you formed any opinions or ideas yet about ions or microbes in the soil?

This research has been around for a long time, but not many people made any connection to locating treasures except some mining companies. Maybe it is not possible for hobbyists to develop any electronics that are truly effective in detecting these subterranean ion activities. Any ideas?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

Who needs Electronics?



No Batteries, No electronics, weighs 4 1/2 ozs. Discriminates to, and detects Gold only at ranges to 100 yards. That's a fact!

NOT FOR SALE! Dell

[Esteban]

Hello all the guys.


As Qiaozhi wrote, all us wish calm, good spirit for to go ahead.

Regards

Esteban

[J_Player]

Who needs Electronics?

The majority of people who have ever tried a bent rod style LRL and discovered they did not locate treasure would like an electronic locator that works.

This majority of people are tired of hearing excuses like "interference, sunspots, solar flares, deteriorated conditions, can’t differentiate between a speck and a ton", and other excuses why the bent rod equipment didn't work.

This majority of people are tired of wishing they could have their money back for instruments that are unable to show them where treasure is after months of practicing and trying every method suggested by the manufacturer.

This majority of people would be happy to use a real electronic instrument that locates the treasure without having some LRL manufacturer tell them that they are just too stupid to figure out how to use the bent rod style locator.

These majority of people would be happy to use an electronic locator that works after watching victims of LRL sales waste months searching in vain and finding nothing except gravity.

Shall I continue with further details?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Hi Qiaozhi,

Behind all this pissing contest, there was some real science presented in the LRL forum. Have you formed any opinions or ideas yet about ions or microbes in the soil?

This research has been around for a long time, but not many people made any connection to locating treasures except some mining companies. Maybe it is not possible for hobbyists to develop any electronics that are truly effective in detecting these subterranean ion activities. Any ideas?

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi JP,
you know I totally agree on microbes and gold ions generation in soil due e.g. to chemical...

don't think I'm talking of the whole context as fake. I'm not.

But I want to indicate where real fakes that are here...

Just this.

All the scientific points of view are welcome to me.
I'm open mind person, even if a bit critic vs some manifacturers here... and their supporters.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Hello all the guys.


As Qiaozhi wrote, all us wish calm, good spirit for to go ahead.

Regards

Esteban

Hi,
Esteban, ok ok
maybe I've a "bit" exagerated with my critics here...
sorry if someone feels bad about that.

Fact is that I'm tired of reading all the same stuff... about spark-gaps and some other funny things that are tuot as TRUTH, but aren't, couldn't be.

I think you are a seriuos person... so why you support such theories too???

(but what's that stuff you holds ???)

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Why support experimenting?

Why would a serious person support theories of electronic locating? Maybe it has something to do with ions in the soil.

Metal ions in the soil = electricity
When we have a chemical reaction involving metals, we usually see an electrical consequence. Consider the case of a battery. A chemical reaction inside the battery results in a voltage produced at the terminals of the battery. The voltage wants electrons to flow to the opposite terminal of the battery in order to allow the chemical reaction to continue and reach an equilibrium where the battery is fully discharged and has no more driving force to push electrons.

The chemical action on metals beneath the ground also causes an electrical consequence. But metals under the ground are not in the same condition as metals inside a battery. These metals have no terminals designed to collect the electrons and feed them toward an opposite terminal for purposes of harnessing electricity. Metals in the ground that form ions due to chemical action are at the mercy of the ground environment for flow of electricity. In the ground, ions in solution can move with the moisture in the ground, and can react chemically with the local salts and other constituents of the electrolyte in the soil. Because this "ground battery" condition is not optimized for producing power, we can expect a very small current flow, and depending on what metal has ionized, we can expect a very small amount of ions dissolved in the soil. These are scientific facts, as reported by reesearchers who observed these phenomenon happening deep in the ground.

Gold ions are usually fewer than other metal ions
As long as there are chemicals in the ground that can act on gold and other metals, these metals will continue to corrode and dissolve into the soil in order to reach a chemical and electrical equilibrium. For some metals this can be relatively fast. Metals like iron, silver, and aluminum can dissolve relatively fast in a corrosive environment. But when we look at metals like gold and platinum, ordinary chemical reagents don't have much of a corrosive effect, and we see that microbes must excrete traces of cyanide and other chemicals to have any effect at all. It is the presence of these trace chemicals that allows trace amounts of noble metals to become soluble ions.

Soil ions are in nano-amounts and cause nano-current flows
All of this electrical activity under the ground happens in small amounts that are hard to measure. Further, if we wanted to measure the current from gold ions, a simple nano-ammeter probe in the soil would not tell us if we were measuring gold ions or nearby silver ions, or any other metal that was forming ions in the vicinity. It would not tell us if there were other chemical reactions happening in the soil that were causing a current flow. We could use logic to reason that an area contains no measurable groud currents except in one location, therefore it is likely there is some metal buried in that location. If we are lucky, maybe we find a treasure there, or maybe an old horse shoe.

Does the electric field of the atmosphere react?
Another electrical consequence of ions in the ground is the reaction of the static field of the atmosphere. There is a 100v/meter electric field at the surface of the earth. The total current flow leaking through the atmosphere on earth is about 2000 amps. Only a tiny portion of this current is located in any small plot of land. Thus we are looking at a high voltage/low current field at the surface of the earth. Now keep in mind, we are looking at a fairly uniform field in the air where the air is the insulator for the current to leak through, and the negative terminal is the earth. Do you suppose there are any physical anomalies that could influence the current flow or the shape of this field? Do you suppose an area of ionized soil surrounded by non-ionized soil would be more conductive, and allow more atmospheric current to leak toward the ionized area?

Small signals require special designs
Does this give you some ideas why people like Esteban construct electronic devices to locate anomalies that some consider to be static detectors? Does this high voltage/low current flow of atmospheric electricity bring any ideas to mind why you would try a small Tesla coil to transmit/receive rather than using simple battery voltage?

Is the direct approach the best?
If a person is of a simple mind, he might look to build a simple electric field anomaly detector, which might tell him the location where the atmospheric field is changed. If a more sophisticated experimenter built a device that combined chemical or microbe sampling with an electric field detector, he would have much better success at locating desireable targets. The problem with soil samples is the time and precision involved. Maybe somebody will figure a way to make this simpler. But for now, nobody has come up with a simple method of measuring parts per billion of gold, or to quickly identify gold-eating microbes with their treasure hunting machines.

Could indirect methods work better?
But what about other physical phenomenon that could be measured? Have we ever considered that there are quite a few more secondary phenomenon that are measurable as a result of buried metal locations? Is it possible that the best instruments utilize one or more of the secondary phenomenon in order to function?

Look at the way astronomers identify the presence of different elements on distant stars. They don't take physical samples or use metal detectors. They measure secondary phenomenon associated with the elements that can be reliably used to identify them. The same is true for geo-science instruments. Geologists use an array of instruments to identify what's beneath the ground from echo-imaging to induced polarization. While these methods may not be applicable to the problem of constructing an electronic machine to locate buried treasure at long distance, the concept of looking beyond a direct measurement could be very useful.

What to measure?
In addition to the earth's static field that could be influenced by local hot spots of metal ions in the soil, there are energies from deep in the earth and from space that cause nuclear changes passing through the same soil, and there is all kinds of radio noise from natural and man made sources in the air that is influenced by the conductivity of the atmosphere. There are also other secondary phenomenon that may be beyond the capabilities of the average experimenter in this forum.

The information I put in this post could suggest at least five approaches to experimenting with new electronic methods to locate a buried target. If we are experimenters who can only build electronic circuits per known schematic designs, then there is no hope to develop a new method. But for those electronic experimenters with some vision and understanding of the real science involved in parts per billion concentrations of ions in the soil, the technology is available today to tap into the real signals that point to the treasure.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Nihil Roma Maius]

J_Player

You're RIGHT!

Secondary phenomenom is the key. Sensitive electrometers demands a kind of shielding or own "atmosphere" as in the old glass vacuum tube.

Also can helps preionized gold. Smoke detectors with Americium 241 can be usable.

How appears gold in nuclear reactor, the modern Alchemy:

http://www.chemsoc.org/ExemplarChem/entries/2002/crabb/modern.html

[Dell Winders]

the technology is available today to tap into the real signals that point to the treasure.

That's so true.

I don't know what it takes to get Scientific pretenders to do field research and learn that. "What has already been done, is an established fact and is repeatable under the same conditions. Dell

[Geo]

Hello all the guys.


As Qiaozhi wrote, all us wish calm, good spirit for to go ahead.

Regards

Esteban

Welcome Esteban

Best Regards

[Esteban]

Hi Geo.

Thanks very much. But, can't return. Maybe if the people participate seriously here.

Nihil Roma said the truth about patent and design, but this is not international. So, is very difficult to show. Include, TV demonstration exist about electronic LRL.

Some people must be appart his clown pics, because they can convert in one of this.

TV demonstration:

[Rudy]

X

[Rudy]

Who needs Electronics?



No Batteries, No electronics, weighs 4 1/2 ozs. Discriminates to, and detects Gold only at ranges to 100 yards. That's a fact!

NOT FOR SALE! Dell

Looks like the guts of a paint roller.

[Dell Winders]

Looks like the guts of a paint roller.

Looks have ceartainly proven to be confusing to the Scientific pretenders on this forum.

Carl, would probably look at it and call it a dowsing device. He calls anything beyond his limited knowledge of physics a dowsing device, and therefore by assumption, and appearances alone he tries to decieve his loyal followers and the public by authoritively proclaiming Dowsing devices don't work, so this device can't work either.

O.K. I know about Carl, he's been barking up my tail for years with false allegations. Let's see how smart the rest of you think you are?

Is the device in the photo I posted a Dowsing device and it will not discriminate to Gold only, any better than a person chance guessing the type of a buried target

OR, it is NOT a dowsing device and it does really discriminate to Gold only from a distance and works within the laws of physics and based on Scientific principles as I claim it to be?? Dell

[Max]

Hi Geo.

Thanks very much. But, can't return. Maybe if the people participate seriously here.

Nihil Roma said the truth about patent and design, but this is not international. So, is very difficult to show. Include, TV demonstration exist about electronic LRL.

Some people must be appart his clown pics, because they can convert in one of this.

TV demonstration:

Hi Esteban,
why do you feel so irritate of my stupid shows !?

Just jokes, but they aren't important.

What's important is understand if there are fake claims here.

Can you can detect a coin on surface soil from meters away using a metal detector ?

Demonstrate it!

You said that patent/design aren't international, ok. I understand.
(well the inventor could also ask for international patent if it's worth... but
anyway)

But what do you offer to confirm Nihil claims ? Just another funny picture here...

Me too can bring a microphone on and hold in my hand a box with some radio antenna... and then ? These are the facts, my friend ?

You'll gain credit here not posting that pictures (even if funny) but posting facts, like your friend Nihil.

Kind regards,
Max