MINERO

[hung]

Yes, it's Spanish.
But I've no idea what "Não generalize!" means in English, or any other language for that matter.

It's portuguese. It means 'don't generalize' - 'don't become general'

This is just an observation - but I have noticed many times on this forum, whenever a treasure is claimed to have been found by an LRL, that (in most cases) there is also a conventional metal detector involved. For example, in the case quoted by michael above.

Not necessary.
I can't speak for other LRLs but in the case of Mineoro one will only want to use a regular MD if he loses the ionic field (real small object) and thus can't pinpont it.
Anyway this should be used as a last attempt due to a EM detector causes the field to vanish. Besides the fact a regular MD will go only a few inches. Totally useless for treasures which are several feet deep.

[michael]

good points

It has nothing to do with "americanism". Dell is very "awake" about his claims, which you, other people are not!.

Yes he is awake that a man like as you never can be awake of LRLing quiddity and technique; you claim know a lot about radio frequency " NO RADIO FREQUENCY THAT PENETRATE IN TO GROUND !!! Remember that.Frequencies bellow aprox.50 kHz can penetrate through some type of materials,…" it shows your distinction about radio frequency is similar to about our origin, nationality and relationship!!! You even haven't undertaken labour for testing radio frequency penetration. If had done…..
Do favor Mr. awake engineer and explain of any thing you are awake from. Ooohh . please not be again your dreams or personal equations and jokes; " I bet that all of you people (hung,michael,esteban,detectoman and whatever) are coming from the same place….."
If somebody be skeptic about LRLing by reading your concepts will believe in LRLing.

This is just an observation - but I have noticed many times on this forum, whenever a treasure is claimed to have been found by an LRL, that (in most cases) there is also a conventional metal detector involved. For example, in the case quoted by michael above.

Yes, I never denied PI MDs capability and I own one good , but they don't satisfy or convince us. we can deduce LRLing is a fact and has given it's result at least by MFDs. then why Mineoro shouldn't be working??.
I agree with LRLing up to this ; may be it not be enough for pinpointing , but can shorten the search time. About mineoro still have not any experience may be doesn't need to any pinpointer MD and it suffice for it by its own as is being claimed.
we are not here to humiliate each other, we are looking forward the truth. The truth can't be found in dusty & hazy space that some people make.

The information I have is that the FG 78 will only start to ship next week after a delay caused by changing ICs and retesting them as covered here by me. In fact your statement made me call a friend at Mineoro to confirm this info.
I was told that no FGs were sent to Europe anytime simply because they were not ready. Not even a prototype was used there AFAIK.

This demonstrates that Robert hasn't experienced non of the mineoro or even PI MDs
He only runs his personal equations continuously. maybe is hired by one of CMD producers to spoil the face of mineoro. The put picture of working by pulse star from him should be fake and a lie like as other his statements. Anyway regards to any witan skeptic not so obvious liars.

[Qiaozhi]

Language

It's portuguese. It means 'don't generalize' - 'don't become general'

Thanks. Portuguese must be similar to Spanish then? Many of the words seem to be the same.

[Dell Winders]

Intellectual prejudice can be as damaging to progress as racial prejudice. Each of us can only speak honestly of what we have experienced personally. Beyond what we have experienced as fact is only heresay, conjecture, and opinion.

A negative view when it is provided as constructive criticism can be beneficial to progress. A positive view should not be devoid of experienced facts. As the saying goes opinions are like A. holes. Everyone has one. They are useful but not something that is appropriate to display in public.

In order to progress, it is prudent to quietly accept what others in the truth of their own experience have to say on this subject. Whether we believe what is said, or not, it is our individual right to mentally process the information provided on our own without intellectual criticism of anothers thought process.

It is an established fact that thousands of Treasure hunters have experienced beneficial rewards from the use of Remote Sensing Discrimination. I know some of them personally. It is also a fact that RSD has not lived up to the advertised expectations of tens of thousands of purchasers who have been victims of profiteering from mis-leading and false advertising, sometimes intentional and sometimes in the sellers ignorance.

The negative ratio of these generalized statistics do not show that RSD is not a viable concept. There are too many positives to be coincidence. It does however suggest the reasons for the negativity and that RSD is a viable concept still in primitive stages, that warrants further development. What has already been done by some, can also be done and improved on by others.

I hope everyone will accept the RSD concept in that context and continue with your own ideas for development and application. Thank you for your interest, input, and feed back to this thread. Dell

[Esteban]

Qiaozhi: while you're building this, can learn some Portuguese!

http://www.mytempdir.com/676709

[Qiaozhi]

Portuguese

Qiaozhi: while you're building this, can learn some Portuguese!

http://www.mytempdir.com/676709

Thanks!
This looks like a variation on the Kamil Kraus design. Have you built this? If so, how was the sensitivity? I built a similar circuit in the past and it was not very sensitive at all.
However, this one seems to be slightly different, as the timing resistor input (pin is being driven by a current mirror. Perhaps this linearizes the response of the VCO?

[robert]

Pfffff....

:o
Michael...again!? Your nonsences continue! I do have a lot of criticism on LRL and
moneoro account...yes it is truth.But in all my posts i done some more than just
provoking.I do have for real a dozen md's.Also i do have a few lrl's.Also i checked/
tested a couple of mineoros.I do electronics for living,also prospecting in my spare
time.I do have a rich expirience wich is very rich comparing to some people also very
poor comparing to some other people.Let say I consider my knowledge somewhere in the
middle.All my posts are based on my own expirience, therefore i stand in front of it.
But you...you are here just to provoking and peaking.If you think that it is the best way
to "buy" some knowledge from the others, than you are on wrong track! By licking the a..
to some people here and same time to provoking me and other sceptics, you'll go nowhere!
"it shows your distinction about radio frequency is similar to about our origin,
nationality and relationship!!! You even haven't undertaken labour for testing radio
frequency penetration. If had done….. "
What do you know on that subject? O.K.show some knowledge here.Teach me some!I bet that
you do not know even what radio is!? DO you have any radio?Ha!
I think that your "origin,nationality and relationship" bugs you more than me, cose i do
not have problem with that.I never claimed anything on that subject. I do respect your
"origin,nationality and relationship" same as mine own, maybe more, cose it is in my
culture.I do not respect the nonsences and "knowledge" you showed here in all your posts.
So mentioning that you are just offending me much! It is very clear that we are
not on the same level, and we can not comunicate at all.Sorry, but this is last word for
you.Further i am gonna disregard all your posts and claims.This supposed to be a mineoro
thread not "michael vs robert" or "michael and robert spitting each other" thread.
" Portuguese must be similar to Spanish then..."
Of course! Qiaozhi it is evident and clear that all those people are coming from Brasil
where portuguese is official language.That's why i made that note:
"I bet that all of you people (hung,michael,esteban,detectoman and whatever)
are coming from the same place….."
I suspected that they are conected with the same interests.Also i suspected that they are
very involved in mineoro's money factory!That's why they are so agressive and pesty on that
subject.The main interest is to collect as much as possible more naives customers, nothing
else! No science, no knowledge, NO FACTS,NO PROOFS!!! Just empty retorics,mumble-jumble and
provoking everybody! I think the best way to deal with them is to disregard them and to
chat only with people who are ready for constuctive talking.
"It's good at least didn't add DELL to this list..."
Of course not.Dell is not in that "package". His posts shows much more than just an empy
retorics.At least he is doing something.Testing,experimenting,inventing,trying.. ..
I just can not disrespect his efforts.I just have to respect that kind of attitude.
Although i do have very bad experiences with that kind of apparatus. Once, a 15 years ago
i had some Omnitron. But it was German device not Dell's. It has very nice function generator
included in, also in the same box, frequency counter up to 100 kHz. Digital with 4 LED displays.
Also there are 4 rods included in and some other stuff.At the time, it was very expensive.
It costed some 14000 german marks in 1990.!!!(7000 euros would be today..)
The very same function generator(for nf measurements purposes, i used so many times when
repaired professional radio equipment,since it is my job for over the 15 years), so the very
same f.g. in the Conrad shop in Munchen,Germany at the same time, costed about 450-500 DEM !?
The rest of money was for those 4 rods,some cables and bag !!!??? Very prune manual,some
nonsence list of frequencies of materials and nothing else!?
O.K. at the time i was not "awaked" in lrl stuff much. I used that "Omnitron" on the field
many times, trying to locate some items with no success at all! The main concept was to
choose desiring frequency and switch on the function generator. Since 2 rods are plugged in
device by 2 cables and also stabed in the ground, i had to take another 2 rods and from
distance follow some "signal" trying to find echoed signal.Etc.etc. I guess no need for me
to go deep in details. You all know very well how is supposed to deal with that kind of
apparatus. Absolute nonsence! How anybody to expect that 5kHz(for example), sinusoidal,DC or
AC anyway, can penetrate so deep in the ground, reflect by some item and by 45dg angle show
on gnd surface, where you can "collect" it with other 2 rods !? The main principle is wrong.
It showed to me and to other people 15 years ago! Now, these days some people come here
and trying to tech me again!? Trying to convince me in some"new stuff". I do know that
there are also people who tryed this even much,much before me.
The simillar story is with elsectroscope devices,different rods,odds etc. Last couple years
some new "devices" shows on market.The very same story and functionallity with mineoro too!
But the main point is, that this is not only my expirience(in that case i would consider myself
as a unique wretch), but this is also expirience of so many other people too!
"Intellectual prejudice can be as damaging to progress as racial prejudice."
I agree! But i am speaking of expiriences "in vivo" not hypothetical.
"....They are useful but not something that is appropriate to display in public."
Sometimes you don't have choice.Some people deserve that kind of "display"-ing.
"In order to progress, it is prudent to quietly accept what others in the truth of their
own experience have to say on this subject. Whether we believe what is said, or not, it
is our individual right to mentally process the information provided on our own without
intellectual criticism of anothers thought process."
Again agree! Unless "others" start anoying you so much that you just have to answer.
"It is an established fact that thousands of Treasure hunters have experienced beneficial
rewards from the use of Remote Sensing Discrimination. I know some of them personally"
Sorry i don't. I do know over 50-60 prospectors.Some of them very "rewarded".But in all
cases with convetional md only, also with some new techniques based on pure science, for
example some cesium gradiometer or NMR stuff etc.etc. Sorry,again but this is fact too.
"It is also a fact that RSD has not lived up to the advertised expectations of tens of
thousands of purchasers who have been victims of profiteering from mis-leading and false
advertising, sometimes intentional and sometimes in the sellers ignorance..."
Good! As a promoter of RSD, what have you done to make "clear" difference between frauds and
"real RSD" stuff. I mean here, on this forum, or any other forum, or in public anyhow?
You can also defend better your attitude by detaching it from them.As i am very ready not
to give up yet from RSD, i do beleive there are also other people like me. You can do
something in that direction more.
"The negative ratio of these generalized statistics do not show that RSD is not a viable
concept."
Sorry, you have to admit that generalized statistics is a fact!Present situation.
No "mumble-jumble" from Brasil will help at all! (Me personally adore Brasil, very nice
country,the best soccer and carnivals, also very nice people there).
"There are too many positives to be coincidence..."
UFO's too! Vampires too! Aliens too! Zombies too! etc.etc.
"It does however suggest the reasons for the negativity and that RSD is a viable concept
still in primitive stages, that warrants further development"
I live for that day! I would be very stupid not to use LRL or RSD instead of CMD if gain some
results.
"What has already been done by some, can also be done and improved on by others."
I already give here explanation of "how can be done" by personal "skills".

"I hope everyone will accept the RSD concept in that context and continue with your own ideas
for development and application. Thank you for your interest, input, and feed back to this
thread. "
Good and honest ideas, sometimes brings very bad effects. But still i am not against this thread
i am just against some claims, some people claimed here. Also do have need to react on lies and
frauds. Besides, in future we have to look ourselves in the mirror and see a man not a donkey!
If do nothing against trash and rubbish here like generally in real life, than better do not use
a mirror any more.
Anyway, this is a free forum! Anything involved here!

[Esteban]

Qiaozhi, a friend provide me the schematic, and he said me is good.
As I put in the schematic, big iron object deffects the needle as non-ferrous, this is at the right.

[hung]

Qiaozhi, a friend provide me the schematic, and he said me is good.
As I put in the schematic, big iron object deffects the needle as non-ferrous, this is at the right.

Well since I'm the one Brazilian here, after reading the specs and looking at the schematics, all indicates it's a standard MD with a coil size of about 4 '' diameter.

Esteban, do you know how deep this thing can go? I really doubt this goes deeper than my Minelab Excalibur, which by the way I also use for diving . Great on the beach and underwater.

[ivconic]

Hi !


Hi people !
I just want to justify all Roberts claims here.We are collaborators for over the 20 years, so i am standing in front of his claims here. Picture from the field with Pulsestar II and big coil is real. Also remarks on mineoro testing too!
Take it easy.Calm down.
regards

[Esteban]

Hung, of course, your Minelab is better all the live!!! I post this kind of schematic because MD based on PLL is no very common. You can alterate the coil and make type wand and use as pinpoint for to find the target.

[michael]

thank you again Robert

Robert;If you think that it is the best way to "buy" some knowledge from the others, than you are on wrong track! By licking the a..
Oh there is no expectancy from you more than defiling others .thank you again. But I never humiliate you if I do what’s difference between me and animals???!!
It’s better you explain why try estrange us from truth by lyings?

What do you know on that subject? O.K. show some knowledge here. Teach me some !I bet that you do not know even what radio is!? DO you have any radio? Ha!
Do you mean a part of electromagnetic spectrum, ...? are you kidding us ? Even a grader knows it....
it’s not important. The field experiences and results are important.
I told I am not a liar claimant. But you when ridicule others and claim are an expert even haven’t made a test for radio waves, the test that I made.
We detected them by a cheap portable frequency-meter maximum at about 4 meters far from Transmitter. And inside a thick ceramic vase full of soil. Yes put probes inside it. And detected every frequency was set to emit from transmitter.
We got this result at the depth 3 meters (maybe goes deeper, but we had 3 meter as deepest hole) underground and a distance was the same. Of course transmitter was homemade with a powerful amplifier (output= about 200 watts). And works by 2 x 12 volts battery.
As I said before I am not electrician but know so-so. I have an expert electrician Who has 45 experience and made this he told if had a high sensitive frequency-meter (certainly is expensive =think said is about 12000 $ ) would be detected up to 300 feet far away.
By composing transmitters with Dell Directional Rod we got the best results.
We passed all of our double blind testes 100% successfully. (test was on Gold And Iron). The depth of …..oh no thinking of it…. Please don’t slander me as Dell hired man the same for mineoro….
Is it enough? Oh man! I know you are a sophistication professor and try to tell something against. No problem, about it I disregard.
We got acquaint with a man could find only gold with his homemade MFD and 2 L rods. He was incredibly able to find gold in double blind testes everywhere in every condition in every test condition .What a pity soon missed him in a driving accident.
I myself didn’t get satisfiable results by 2 L rods, never. But got with DDL the best. It’s why I believe in LRLing. hence I can not deny Mineoro prejudicely.
In spite of these we are not here to battle against each other, are here to learn From each other. May be I learn many things from other nice guys here and they One word from me.
Robert! Of course If you have done field efforts I respect to your experiences, but it doesn’t mean just you are speaking of experiences "in vivo" not hypothetical.
Then think about your comments “…than you are on wrong track! By licking the a..”????

[michael]

thank you again Robert 2

...I used that "Omnitron" on the field many times, trying to locate some items with no success at all! The main concept was to choose desiring frequency and switch on the function generator...

Oh By the way;
are you sure your transmitter was intact?
I ask this because we prepared one LRL from Notsi (a Bulgarian firm) about 3 years ago.
It ruined one of our best opportunities and wasted a complete season of our life in one of the best areas for treasure hunting.
At first in every place we had signals for every valley or ramp.
realized there should be a problem. when checked by Oscilloscope had 2
problem; 1- it had a constant freq. 249 KHZ for every option and 2- the wave vas a broken sin. after 3 hours working on, freq output become fixed but the wave shape not. it had an inferior circuit made in Russia. and my electrician told the amplifier is too weak to dispatch wave far enough.
again started with Notsi, and never could pass the testes (even 5%).
then we made a powerful transmitter with a smooth and constant output wave (from 1 Hz to 100 Khz) and a changer for sinus to square and vice versa. but only sinus wave replied.
In our double blind tests (rod was DDL), we never got results by Notsi transmitter, but got good results by the homemade + DDL.
But we need a device be really able to scan hectares x hectares. maybe mineoro or other thing.

[Dell Winders]

But we need a device be really able to scan hectares x hectares. maybe mineoro or other thing.

Michael, in my experience, I don't reccommend surveying distances of more than 100 yards at a time, maximum. Most practical survey's are conducted at a lesser distance, which I would also suggest when using the Mineoro. Dell

[Esteban]

As Michael said, this is a site for to learn of others. I want to learn of any experimenter and, of course, I want to find somebody to teach me possitevely, no people automatically dissapoint investigations of others.

Maybe I wrong in some aspects for to achieve more scientifically or more accuracy devices and expect for somebody to teach me... yes I need learn more because, as you said, I watch in the mirror and only see a donkey!

As I see, there are persons that "Robert" who know all of alls. He don't need infos, nothing. He automatically dissapoint and ready!

Robert: wich is your experiences in long distance detectors? You, as engineer in telecommunications, had builded a device based on radio? If not, what you are waiting? Do you know that radio is good for to find good conductive metals? Maybe not, because in the university don't teach you and others about how to find treasure with radio. And why the professors don't teach about it? Simple: they don't experiment in this way! Better: don't know!

I, via my ignorance -but experimenting- achieve more than others. The persistence in some ideas and work in it, this is the unique way of the knowledge!

As maybe I don't know much about your profession -and as I don't know much, only a few- I don't attack you in your work.

Please, don't attack us (Detectoman, Dell, Hung, Michael, I and others)shooting in any direction, but with poor results in your objective.