frquncy

[Geo]

I see, but i think JP was talking about Lrods and a 555 glued to a 9v battery, so this is something different.
Of course producing HV is easy, and you easily make flow many mA between nails .This is not really what i call a portable LRL...
But what about a 1kv/m natural earth gradient ?

No big difference. Very simple with air emition only (with a 555) the detected field is small.
Sorry but i don't understand what you mean "natural earth gradient "

Regards

[wam]

Thanks for clarifying, would it help if a person is walking around without shoes?
If the detecting is via neuron response and contraction system, then the better contact with ground and more electricity may improve. What is recommended distance between nails?
What about puling small trolley behind with battery and HV generator connected to the wheals with nails? Trying this is still better than sitting in front TV - no matter how stupid is the idea.
If it works every time at least for one person on this planet He will be a celebrity and reworded with Nobel price for proving new field in science.
I think it is more about looking for THE ONE individual with special powers among all of us. It requires to find only one "chosen" to be recognized as science, when he will be detected all universities will pay big $ to be able to study him.
Regards,

[J_Player]

Hi, so what do You measure (detect) - the resistance (impedance) of the ground between nails? You Can buy a Mega meter to do it and measure current. I have in my lab Mega meter, it can do up to 5 KV with DC/AC with adjustable frequency and it display 00.00 ma - is it suitable to sense metal? What should happened if frequency is OK and metal is OK - it will be parallel resonance or series resonance? Can You make some electric drawing to make model of electric theory going on under ground for this connection? Do You expect that "ions" will jump out of gold above ground? I strongly recommend to do some homework about AU+ ions and quantum physics before any one start talking ions again.
Regards,

Hi Wam,
The equipment we are talking about is called the VR-800 "molecular frequency discriminator" sold for $1995 US. See below:









The two large plastic pipes with vertical brass rods are pushed into the ground.
Then the wires are connected to the signal generator that sends out a square wave at the battery voltage from the 555 timer IC.
You can turn the knob on the front of the box to change the square wave frequency to the secret frequency for different buried metals.
In order to locate the buried metal, you hold the two small copper pipe handles in your hands and walk around the ground.
The wires connected to the pipe handles are plugged into the smaller plastic box which also has a 555 timer IC in it.
This second 555 timer is running at a different frequency than the frequency generator connected to the ground probes.

The people who sell this equipment say the long swiveling rod at the top of the handles in your hands will swing and point to where the metal is buried.
You can follow where the rods are pointing until you come to the location of the buried metal.
When you walk over the top of the buried metal, the rods will cross together.
You do not actually measure any electronic signal.
You only watch the rods swing to the direction of the buried metal.

Geo has told us this VR-800 signal generator will not work.
Geo told us that we should use much more power than this 555 timer can deliver.
So we need to change the signal generator to a higher voltage like 70 volts or more.
Then we can expect the rods in our hands will swing to point to the treasure.
So don't spend $1995 US for the VR-800.
You are better to build your own signal generator with 70 volts or more.
It will cost less money too.

For me, I see no science here.
I see only some talk to say this will work to find treasure if you change it to send out more than 70 volts instead of the original battery voltage.
I see no evidence anybody ever found treasure with this equipment.
These are photos of a VR-800 that somebody gave to Carl-NC who is owner of the Geotech forums to test and to see why it does not work.
It only found treasure one time... It found $1995 US when the buyer sent money to the LRL salesman to buy it.
But it never found anything else for the owner or for Carl-NC.
I also know that Carl-NC will pay $25,000 to anybody who can pass his test to prove they can find buried metal using this equipment.
I do not see any people taking his test to win his $25,000.


Best wishes,
J_P

[wam]

Hi, so what do You measure (detect) - the resistance (impedance) of the ground between nails? You Can buy a Mega meter to do it and measure current. I have in my lab Mega meter, it can do up to 5 KV with DC/AC with adjustable frequency and it display 00.00 ma - is it suitable to sense metal? What should happened if frequency is OK and metal is OK - it will be parallel resonance or series resonance? Can You make some electric drawing to make model of electric theory going on under ground for this connection? Do You expect that "ions" will jump out of gold above ground? I strongly recommend to do some homework about AU+ ions and quantum physics before any one start talking ions again.
Regards,

[J_Player]

I see, but i think JP was talking about Lrods and a 555 glued to a 9v battery, so this is something different.
Of course producing HV is easy, and you easily make flow many mA between nails .This is not really what i call a portable LRL...
But what about a 1kv/m natural earth gradient ?

Hi Fred,
Of course this is what we are talking about.
We have been talking about the VR-800 style L-rod with a 555 frequency generator since I answered goldfinder's post #39 where he complained about the high cost of commercial MFD LRLs.
Geo knows this very well because he can read posts before he makes replies.
If Geo is certain that 70 volts is needed, then we have discovered the reason why the VR-800 failed to help Dell Winders find the hidden coins so he could win the Randi prize.
Maybe I should use eight 9v batteries glued together in series.
I think I can plug the positive and negative connectors together without using glue.
Then I will have the needed voltage without making a special power supply.
But this is too much voltage for my 3055 transistors.
Maybe I need to switch to 100v SCRs or triodes for releasing this voltage into the ground at the different treasure frequencies.
Rubber gloves could be useful.


Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

The flow is between generator output and gnd VIA the ground. You must connect the output of generator to the ground via 2 nails....

I see, but i think JP was talking about Lrods and a 555 glued to a 9v battery, so this is something different.
Of course producing HV is easy, and you easily make flow many mA between nails .This is not really what i call a portable LRL...
But what about a 1kv/m natural earth gradient ?

[Geo]

Hi J_P.
Of course the 9V or 12V suply is not the best solution. Maybe a tention more than 70V to be OK.

Regards

[J_Player]

The flow is between generator output and gnd VIA the ground. You must connect the output of generator to the ground via 2 nails....

I said the same but you play with the words

Hi Geo,

I don't play with words. I looked at your exact words.
You did not talk about getting a signal from buried objects.
You only talked about the ability of a signal generator to deliver a few ma of signal to the ground.
Milliamps signal from a signal generator is not the same thing as signal from buried objects even if you want me to think they are the same.

But it does not matter because the question has been answered.

If more current flow is better, then there is better equipment to use than a battery power oscillator.
The geologists who use induced polarization often put more than 1000 volts on their ground probes and they get a reaction from metals under the ground.
Their measurements of the metals under the ground can be checked and repeated by other testers who find the same exact reading which they find.
I believe they do not use a 9v battery for their induced polarization generator.


Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

And flow thru what?

The flow is between generator output and gnd VIA the ground. You must connect the output of generator to the ground via 2 nails....

[Geo]

Hi Geo,
That is not what you said.
You said "At least the generator must have the ability to give few "ma" of signal to the ground"
How much current do you suggest?

Is the 7 ma sink from the ICM7555 enough?
Or should I use an LMC555 that is tested to be good from -10ma to +50ma?
Maybe a bipolar LM555 for 200 ma?
Or should I add a 3055 with driver in switch-mode?


Best wishes,
J_P

Hi J_P.
I said the same but you play with the words
Any way... there is not any problem with you.
7ma is near the limit, 20 or 30 ma is better. But remember that it is not easy to make a current flow with the 7555 and low voltage. The resistance of the ground is not low....

Regards

[Fred]

And flow thru what?

[J_Player]

I never talked about VR-800 or similar.
I said that if you need to get any signal from buried objects you need current flow

Regards

Hi Geo,
That is not what you said.
You said "At least the generator must have the ability to give few "ma" of signal to the ground"
How much current do you suggest?

Is the 7 ma sink from the ICM7555 enough?
Or should I use an LMC555 that is tested to be good from -10ma to +50ma?
Maybe a bipolar LM555 for 200 ma?
Or should I add a 3055 with driver in switch-mode?


Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Hi Geo,
The Intersil 7555 is good for at least 7ma at 9volts. But can be much more depending on which manufacturer version of 7555 is used.
If I had a problem where I needed a lot more ma to ground than my 7555 can deliver, then I could easily add a transistor to deliver more power.
No need to order a VR-800 for $1995 USD.


Best wishes,
J_P

I never talked about VR-800 or similar.
I said that if you need to get any signal from buried objects you need current flow

Regards

[J_Player]

Not so simple!!!!
At least the generator must have the ability to give few "ma" of signal to the ground

Regards

Hi Geo,
The Intersil 7555 is good for at least 7ma at 9volts. But can be much more depending on which manufacturer version of 7555 is used.
If I had a problem where I needed a lot more ma to ground than my 7555 can deliver, then I could easily add a transistor to deliver more power.
No need to order a VR-800 for $1995 USD.


Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Well, yes.
I think it can cost less than that.
If I believed I could find things with dowsing rods and a signal generator, then I would buy some real brass welding rods and some copper pipe and caps for handles.
And I would buy a 7555 timer and solder it to a breadboard with a few resistors and capacitors, then stick it on the side of a 9v battery for my signal generator.
I could make it extra fancy by adding a switch that would switch between several different frequencies, or even a pot that I could switch on for infinite variation of frequencies.
The whole mess would cost less than $15 USD.
Then I could have hours of fun looking for treasures at any frequency that people tell me is the secret treasure frequency.

From what I saw in Carl's report of the VR-800, this is exactly what they are selling for $1995. http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/page...r800/index.dat

Best wishes,
J_P

Not so simple!!!!
At least the generator must have the ability to give few "ma" of signal to the ground

Regards