Mineoro 2-Box -- 492 feet range?

[Fred]

Please see attached redrawn portion of Circuit #2.

This appears to be a oscillator that generates a series of high voltage (92V) pulses every 2.5ms. The pulses look very similar to those generated by a pulse induction detector.
The front-mounted coil has been assumed to not contain any tuning capacitors. If a tuning cap is fitted, then the output pulse decay rings at the frequency defined by the LC combination. I also tried various coil values, ranging from 2.5mH to 5.9mH, and these all gave the same results.

To the left-hand side of C9, the circuit (not yet redrawn) is quite possibly the receiver section. However, it's difficult to tell exactly, because of the uncertainty of the coil configuration.

Esteban - does this make any sense to you?

Anyone else - contructive comments welcome.

Qiaozhi,
The R12 3K9 resistor that is on PCB3 but in fact goes from R15 to C4 on PCB2 doesn´t make any sense,(it´s in serie with R15/100K!) but may play an important role by sampling the pulse to the input.
Fred

[Morgan]

Schematic

Max,
I was going back to search for PCB2 and i found your schematic of PCB3.So i made it for nothing ,i have missed plenty of posts.
Even found the pink wire etc.
However, i still think there is something missing at collector of T4,probably a connection...
Sorry,
Fred.

Hello
dont worry,when i have more time i will made better schematic of the 6 PCB´s
Regards

[detectoman]

morgan:

my congratulations for your effort
very thanks, for dedication, and perseverance
too for max and fred and all

the project is in advance
happy celebrations

hoobyst detectoman

[Max]

Max,
I was going back to search for PCB2 and i found your schematic of PCB3.So i made it for nothing ,i have missed plenty of posts.
Even found the pink wire etc.
However, i still think there is something missing at collector of T4,probably a connection...
Sorry,
Fred.

Hi Fred,
yes I see... sorry you had to make the work about it... anyway it's good cause we can compare our results now: for example what about C4 positive lead ? from picture of PCB it seems connected to R7 and D5 but I wasn't sure so putted dashed line.

I think there's something missing too at T4 untill we assume polarization of collectors occours just by R8 and other things there.

Other strange thing, as you stated, is R12 that is connected remotely to PCB2. Why that ? Keeping a resitor on another board and connect by two wires ?

This last thing seems without meaning unless we consider R12 as kind of a sensor placed on PCB3 (kind of a feedback I mean) ??? It's mounted hi and about over R14 and R15 and near T6.

The idea is strange but remember me thing I saw in old transistor based power amplifiers for audio: carbon resistors have positive temperature coeff. so their resistance increase with increase of temperature: but I don't understand why using such a kind of thing... variation is so few and there are plenty of things to use to gain same effect. Then R12 is connected to circuit2 at a particular position (look at picture).

Personally I think the purpose of author is giving some temperature driven stabilization of oscillator respect to amplifier section (kinda of "AGC").

But I still don't understand why using a carbon resistor ?????? Why the hell need of it there , a carbon resistor sensor ::crazy:: ???

Assuming the author of schematic is not seriously sick... then we need also coils data to go ahead now... and will Morgan provide them ?

I'm start thinking, after emails from Paraguay arrived to him, he'll stop posting other things as always happens in these threads of LRL, just to confirm Roberts thoughts and my initial dubts.

Best regards,
Max

[Max]

Hello
dont worry,when i have more time i will made better schematic of the 6 PCB´s
Regards

Hi,
thanks Morgan... but but but...
we need also coils data otherwise Roberts is totally right and all this thread is just another large pile of BS like so many in all LRL section, but this time made by you my friend .

Merry Christmas,
Max

[Max]

ops made an error

R12 on PCB2 is like in this picture not the above.

Kind regards,
Max

[Geo]

Hi,
thanks Morgan... but but but...
we need also coils data otherwise Roberts is totally right and all this thread is just another large pile of BS like so many in all LRL section, but this time made by you my friend .

Merry Christmas,
Max

Hi Max.
I agree.
Morgan made the difficult work (reverse the pcb to schematic) and now stop at the easy work who is the coils. Maybe he don't like to destroy the coils but he can give us a photo from the inner of the head.
Maybe Morgan afraid something...... who knows.
My Regards and
Merry Christmas

[Qiaozhi]

Hi Fred and Max,

IMHO - we should not let us ourselves get confused by small details, such as "why is this a carbon resistor?" or "why is this resistor 1% tolerance?", etc.
At the moment we need to look at the bigger picture. Esteban has already made a comment that these components were probably only used because that's what was available at the time. No other "mysterious" reason. We can already see that is a prototype device, and the amount of loose wiring inside the box shows that the layout is not critical.

At the moment, it looks to me like we have the following:

1. A simple pulse transmitter (RH-side of PCB2) - see attached waveforms.
2. A simple receiver (LH-side of PCB2), although it is not clear how the coils are connected. This part is most likely designed for close range, and will act like a simple PI detector. This appears to be a balanced coil arrangement, and may actually be using the original Garrett Groundhog coil. Carl has offered to measure the inductance values of one in his collection.
3. There is a second receiver (PCB5) that is connected to the ferrites, which is arranged orthogonally to the front-mounted coil. This is (presumably) designed for medium range detection.
4. There is no evidence of either a 7KV generator or an IR element.

What should we do next?

1. Try to understand how the front-mounted coil is connected to the receiver. Carl's data will help here.
2. Concentrate on understanding the purpose of PCBs 2, 3 and 5. PCBs 1, 4 and 6 are failrly straightforward.
3. Draw a top-level diagram (in English) showing all the inter-block connections.

By the way, we should try to complete this project as quickly as possible. Firstly, because Morgan will have to return the device to its original owner in the near future, and any further queries will become impossible.
Secondly, because we will undoubtedly start to lose interest if this drags on for too long.

Initially - can I suggest that we pool our thoughts on the overall block diagram with the interconnections?

[Fred]

Hi max,
I see R12 connected like this, or i made some mistake?
I tha case, thermal compensation is not possible,because of the R15
high value and C5 .Only left i think is pulse pickup.As Qiaozhi says, its
obviously a prototype, but the PCB was made with the resistor already here.
Of course it may not be important, but i see this kind of details as clues to understand the real functionning principles of the device.
About Morgan,i know he will do all he can to get the coil data.

[Fred]

Hi Fred and Max,

Draw a top-level diagram (in English) showing all the inter-block connections.
By the way, we should try to complete this project as quickly as possible. Firstly, because Morgan will have to return the device to its original owner in the near future, and any further queries will become impossible.
Secondly, because we will undoubtedly start to lose interest if this drags on for too long.

Initially - can I suggest that we pool our thoughts on the overall block diagram with the interconnections?

Yes, i think a complete diagram is the next step,because of all the wiring it will look much simpler.But for this an electronic diagram would be much better.

Regards,
Fred.

[Fred]

http://www.zen22142.zen.co.uk/Circuits/Testgear/ccomd.htm

Could it be related to all those long range stuff with receivers inside?
Fred.

[Max]

Yes, i think a complete diagram is the next step,because of all the wiring it will look much simpler.But for this an electronic diagram would be much better.

Regards,
Fred.

Hi,
I'm doing by hands (cause have some time to waste ) and now I've the problem of "BARS"!

I think that bars are just soldering pads where the wires are connected togeter (for one reason or another). So it's like in very old AM radio stuff... ... so that "BARS" aren't actually switches I think... the only switch I see is the "3 positions" one (slider version) under ferrite stick.
Terminal-strips, like strip of veroboards and lots of wires on them!

AM I RIGHT ?

If so... the BARS approach is just to have some "points" where to solder/connects different wires from here and there, thus making possible e.g. changing a circuit/PCB with another of same type just resoldering/connecting its wires only (so without touching other parts of circuit)... kinda of radio-homework !

Kind regards,
Max

[Fred]

Yes Max,
Yes i think you are right.Here a picture where i think is that "bar".
That´s why it will look much simpler after all this is removed .

[Qiaozhi]

Hi,
I'm doing by hands (cause have some time to waste ) and now I've the problem of "BARS"!

I think that bars are just soldering pads where the wires are connected togeter (for one reason or another). So it's like in very old AM radio stuff... ... so that "BARS" aren't actually switches I think... the only switch I see is the "3 positions" one (slider version) under ferrite stick.
Terminal-strips, like strip of veroboards and lots of wires on them!

AM I RIGHT ?

If so... the BARS approach is just to have some "points" where to solder/connects different wires from here and there, thus making possible e.g. changing a circuit/PCB with another of same type just resoldering/connecting its wires only (so without touching other parts of circuit)... kinda of radio-homework !

Kind regards,
Max

I have been looking at the connections between the six PCBs, but some of them don't make any sense. The power supply is obviously 2F (i.e. barra 2F) and gnd (0V) is 2G. But what is B1 (for instance - see PCB5)? Maybe it should be 1B - but no - there are no connections to barra 1B. And - how about barra N2, barra 2, and barra N4 in PCB3?

Also - I made an incorrect statement in an earlier post, where I said the ferrite coils are orthogonal to the front-mounted coil. They are in fact perpendicular. So this is not a compact 2-box arrangement after all.

Here's a suggestion for you to consider - what if the front-mounted coil assembly does not actually contain any coils? Could it be similar to the Zahori? Morgan- please could you measure the resistance across the various wires that lead to the front-mounted coil? This will at least give us an indication as to whether there is a collection of coils, and (if so) which ones belong together as a pair.

[Max]

I have been looking at the connections between the six PCBs, but some of them don't make any sense. The power supply is obviously 2F (i.e. barra 2F) and gnd (0V) is 2G. But what is B1 (for instance - see PCB5)? Maybe it should be 1B - but no - there are no connections to barra 1B. And - how about barra N2, barra 2, and barra N4 in PCB3?

Also - I made an incorrect statement in an earlier post, where I said the ferrite coils are orthogonal to the front-mounted coil. They are in fact perpendicular. So this is not a compact 2-box arrangement after all.

Here's a suggestion for you to consider - what if the front-mounted coil assembly does not actually contain any coils? Could it be similar to the Zahori? Morgan- please could you measure the resistance across the various wires that lead to the front-mounted coil? This will at least give us an indication as to whether there is a collection of coils, and (if so) which ones belong together as a pair.

Hi,
you are right, there are some strange things... on bars I've seen them too... next I'll check again on them for further understanding of what's there.

In round "coil" housing could be anything... that's why I'll draw it as a box with 8 wires coming out of it (one is shield and other 7 are for supply and signals I think).

I think that inside the box there is a round coil(s) arrangement and a small PCB with some component on it. I also think that IR emission is not an issue in this kind of thing... that seems much a radio thing.

Personally I think that HV and IR relationship with supposed working LRL principle are just fantasies here, like others about ions etc.

So, lets go ahead and see what happens next.

Kind regards,
Max