MINERO

[michael]

It's going to good place.

Robert!
With complete respect and courtesy;
I wrote before I never knew mineoros nor know them nor gotten acquainted and I am not their proponent I am really in Middle East.
why should I have provoked or defied you??!! I am not mad.
I said I am only searching for facts and really respect to logical skeptics.
but you first started ridiculing, sophisticating and riling the situation and at last humiliating others.
Maybe my english is not good, but I respect to all of the people
and love them, in case all are one god creatures.
I am not claimant or a theorisian , just ask you let here be a smooth place for exchanging information at least user people like as me benefit.
I beleive in one thing; questioning is not hideous, to be ignorant is hideous.
Up to now based on experiences (in Middle East) not only me, but also other treasure searchers, powerful MDs and LRLs are necessary for treasure hunting. here are so many guys have succeeded by combination LRLs + MDs, but because of some limitations we look for better instruments. from this can't conclude LRLs don't work or are junk.
At last I will be as well as glad this jejune dispute be stopped.


Dear Esteban. Thank you thank you for these encouraging enclosures.
Please write a little about detection details; distance, depth, mass of objects.
the ecxact device (if have model).
Please continue more documents enclosure. If you publish the book I’m the First one to order it.

[J_Player]

Esteban...You ask "what kind proof do I want? I have been telling you, but you don't hear. Here is what I want:

I want to see Mineoro machine find gold in front of my eyes, same as all other metal detectors do. simple, easy.

I do NOT want photo from 1959 that somebody says is gold from Mineoro. I do not want story about Mineoro finding gold some long time ago. I want to see with my eyes Mineoro find gold NOW. Simple, easy.

Here is my challenge to you: You tell me time and place in California area where you live to come and meet with you. Then you show me area 1 hector where I will bury 1-oz gold coin. Then you use Mineoro machine to find gold coin that I buried. Simple, easy. I come to you, you do no traveling and you do no work except to take out Mineoro machine and find gold coin in 1 hector.

Story about Mineoro find gold 20 years ago is no good. Watch Mineoro find gold today is good. Simple, easy. For my part, I will show real gold coin 1 oz troy weight (see picture below taken today, not 1979 story about gold coin). I will bring same gold coin for u to see and test for real gold. Then I bury this coin for you to find with Mineoro machine of your favorite choice. This will be absolute proof whether Mineoro is real machine for finding gold , or is fake fraud to steal money form buyer of LRL.

Remeber: I will come to you. You do not need to leave home except to show me 1 hector area to bury coin. Can you prove that Mineoro will find gold same as my White's Surfmaster PI Pro can find coin? Or is this just more "talk about fake LRL" that cannot find gold, and is only good for 1979 stories?

[Carl-NC]

JP,

The US rep for Mineoro, Kurt Kluey, lives in Vista, CA, between LA & San Diego. Why not contact him for a demo? Try your gold-coin-in-a-field test, or just go to the local beaches and see how many gold rings you can dig up in a couple of hours. Should be a cinch...

- Carl

[Dell Winders]

Contrary to the other suggestions, I would suggest that you save your time & gas money unless you are prepared to stay and devote a week of your time testing the Mineoro.

Unfortunately, the Mineoro, will only work when there is a suffecient Strength of Field of the target. The operator instructions say the Mineoro does not work when the Sun is in it's position between 11 AM and 1 PM.
That is not necessarily true. Interference can happen at any time night or day, and last for any length of time. I don't know of any way of predicting in advance when, or where this will occur. This is also true of all MFD, LRL, and Physical Dowsing.

The expense of travelling long distances for a weekend Treasure hunt with over expectations of recovery, using any of these methods of locating is neither practical, or logical thinking. Dell

[Qiaozhi]

Homemade LRL

I post in another thread, yesterday, the parts of the radiofrequency gold-silver detector under the title: "Exactly as conventional MD". The search head is a coil, all the detector is homemade, the plastic search head like "air styler" was used for photographic laboratory. Is a good housing because was easy to build in it, but the variations in models is big.

Consist in two parts: the search head, this is a coil with oscillator, linked by a shielded cable, and a aluminium box with antenna sustained by the neck, in this model. Transmitter-receiver like a radar.

I have impressive quantities of photos, my idea is to put in a book.

If can found a gold chain, can found a treasure. You need an only experience for to convert in phanatic!

Here you can see better:

Hi Esteban,
I have seen the photo of the detector you posted on another thread, but it only shows the external features and controls. Also, I thought the housing looked like a hair dryer. Now I know why.

Can you post the schematic? I am sure many people here would like to build this detector to see if it can find treasure for them, as well as for you and your cousin. At least this is a homemade design that you claim works ok, and not a (not to be named here) company that is trying to make money and charging many thousands of dollars.

[Qiaozhi]

General LRL Observation

Contrary to the other suggestions, I would suggest that you save your time & gas money unless you are prepared to stay and devote a week of your time testing the Mineoro.

Unfortunately, the Mineoro, will only work when there is a suffecient Strength of Field of the target. The operator instructions say the Mineoro does not work when the Sun is in it's position between 11 AM and 1 PM.
That is not necessarily true. Interference can happen at any time night or day, and last for any length of time. I don't know of any way of predicting in advance when, or where this will occur. This is also true of all MFD, LRL, and Physical Dowsing.

The expense of travelling long distances for a weekend Treasure hunt with over expectations of recovery, using any of these methods of locating is neither practical, or logical thinking. Dell

Regardless of whether you (like me) are a skeptic, where LRLs and dowsing are concerned, or a firm believer (like Dell), the sheer unpredictability of these devices must make them very difficult and frustrating to use in practise. How can you trust the results of a device that fails to work between 11 AM and 1 PM (perhaps stop for a long lunch break? ), and is unreliable at other (unknown) times of the day. In fact, according to Dell, it could quite likely be a complete waste of a weekend, and may even require as long as one week to get good results. Quite often I've seen regular metal detectorists go home after only two or three hours of searching if they haven't found anything worth finding. These are (of course) the impatient ones, and very often silver and gold coins have been unearthed many hours after they left the site. How could these people possibly cope with the unpredictability of an LRL?
Carl has dismembered many of these so-called LRLs and found them to be dubious in nature, and many may even be intentionally fraudulent.
This is why I'm interested in seeing the schematic of Esteban's device, as this is homemade and is not for commercial gain. Ivconic's negative ion detector is interesting, but he has never claimed that it can detect gold - just that "it does something".

[Esteban]

Hi, with all the possible fair-play!

J.Player: Justly the pics I post are no part of Mineoro history, nothing to do with technical aspects of Mineoro. I repeat: There are another kind of detector. Only I'm defending another kind of principle for MD.

But I know two models of Mineoro detects, the PDC 205 and the PDC 210. Charged clouds -possible rain- make impossible to use the both. Another little deffect is the difficulty to find the exact point where is buried the target. Now, I'm trying the 2006, this is very stable.

Michael: thanks very much. Need more photos, in special the pics with Mr. John Baldwin, who enjoy this history since 1963-64 to 1986 and collect thousands pieces of gold and silver.

Robert: thanks. We want your participation in this tournament. Respect the FG, I think you must adjust no in very high sensibility, the necessary for to obtain stability. Adjust quiet and move the machine slowly to earth and sky. If you obtain falses in sky or earth positions, retouch the adjustments. All the adjustments make slowly at the exact workable point you find. So, walk with it and search. If you found a point where are insistent the beeps, then you sure you find a target. Search in shinny days, low humidty in air.

Carl: ear that Mineoro only detect targets long time buried, several years. Do the Mineoro's dealer collected testimonials?

Qiaozhi: I'm not the constructor. The person who built it MAYBE design one for my personal use. He dissambled all the models to prevent copy. But during the "Gold Age" (for us) we found many items. I assure you: we collect items like rice! Only precious things and coins.

Dell: yes, is Mr. Williams. Williams and many persons was involved in two trips to USA. No treasures found, yes infinity items. There are many persons in Texas who remember this amazing adventure. They are the witnesses. Ask the witnesses about the accuracy of this radiofrequency - type radar machine.

The both extremes _LRL rod users and classical detectorist_ only the first day the team arrived dissapoint the machine. So, Miguel present a challenge: Under the charge of the looser a complete barbecue. Miguel found a target in the patio of one of them, and at the night the non-believers cooking the meat and various kinds of chorizos and another anti-health foods!

Salute populi, detectoturi te salutant!

[Esteban]

More recent finds with LRL (no rods!)

Found with electronic LRL. Include eyes lenses (gold platted).

[Carl-NC]

Unfortunately, the Mineoro, will only work when there is a suffecient Strength of Field of the target. The operator instructions say the Mineoro does not work when the Sun is in it's position between 11 AM and 1 PM.

From the Mineoro web site:

1. They detect during the day and at night. 24 hours.
2. Atmospheric discharge does not interfere with the detection (nor rays).
3. Electric discharge , EMI (electro magnetic impulse) do not interfere.
4. They detect at night and during the day with humidity up to 80%.
5. Model FG78 - with humiditiy similar or less than 55% - detects gold outside the earth.
6. All models FG78 and DC2007 detect with, from 10% to 80% humidity.
7. They detect with ionic/electrostatic fields similar or bigger than > 25%.
8. Ionic/electrostatic field less than < 25%, charge the classifier with electrostatic energy.

Also, the FG78 is advertised as being gold-only, with the ability to locate fresh gold. Sounds like testing this device should be simple and quick, not much room left for excuses.

Interference can happen at any time night or day, and last for any length of time. This is also true of all MFD, LRL, and Physical Dowsing.

Hmmmm.... almost sounds like LRL results are... completely random!

- Carl

[Qiaozhi]

Homemade LRL

I'm not the constructor. The person who built it MAYBE design one for my personal use. He dissambled all the models to prevent copy. But during the "Gold Age" (for us) we found many items. I assure you: we collect items like rice! Only precious things and coins.

Does this mean that you do not have this detector any more?
If so, why did you dispose of a device that can detect so many interesting and valuable items?
It is a pity that you do not have the schematic.

[Dell Winders]

Regardless of whether you (like me) are a skeptic, where LRLs and dowsing are concerned, or a firm believer (like Dell), the sheer unpredictability of these devices must make them very difficult and frustrating to use in practise.

You are right. When LRL & Remote Sensing Frequency Discrimination are affected by intereference and I am trying to conduct an accurate survey it can be extremely frustrating. On the other hand when operating conditions are optimum the results astonish even hardened skeptics, including myself. (I still find it difficult to believe the multiple discrimination I'm experiencing with X-Scan, yet I can't deny that it is happening) It's not a matter of being a believer. They either work, or they don't work. Believing has nothing to do with it.

I don't use my products, or sell them for the purpose of locating near surface coins & Jewelry, and you may have some reason to be skeptical when they are advertised within that that scenario. That is not their intended use and metal detectors fill the hobbyist requirements quite well.

I use LRL's, Dowsing, & Frequency Discrimination as preliminary information gathering tools to help me isolate and evaluate deep, unknown, possible Treasure Troves that are beyond the depth penetration of conventional Metal detectors. If you aren't familiar with the problems and costs of Treasure Hunting for Deep buried Treasures then you have no reason to be Skeptical, or critical, or even dislike a concept that has made this possible.

Unless you can show a better, faster, more economical method to accompolish this, your skepticism, or criticism has no significance.

If my explaining the limitations and problems assosciated with these methods of locating offends you, then you are offended by honesty. I do build, use and sell my products and I can be proud of the fact that I have not received a single complaint from the customers I have built instruments for. They know and understand the products limitations, before they purchase.

You will find my URL listed in an article by James Randi, and photo's by Carl Moreland, in Vol.12, No.2, of Skeptic Magazine. If only Mr.Randi, would be as honest. (sigh) Dell

[Esteban]

Qiaozhi:

Through the years, only interference on air sum, now celular phones and anothers. As this was a delicate radiofrequency devices, the interference of today make impossible to use it. But a new redesign is in the way.

This is the reason why I'm trying Mineoro today, since is not a radiofrequency device.

Please, I'm in your situation! Waiting the redesigned model!

[robert]

More...


Whether i am gonna talk polite here,choose every word, or be rude as i am,in my private life
too, makes no differences in the main point and idea.Stuff like Mineoros products and other
LRL(very wrong choice of terms here)devices simply do not work the job supposed to do!
Dell's last post(with respect to Dell) shows very clear that mineoro device acts like
some "tribal quack"...You just have to fulfill neverending list of conditions to make it
work !? With any conventional type of md, whether Pi or IB or even BFO you always know
what to expect!I usually go on the location, switch it on, ground balance it, adjust maybe
some more "knobs" and start prospecting. If the location is good i am starting to dig and
collect items...in a few hours i do have full pockets with arrows,coins,rings etc.etc.
Simply as that! I repeated this procedure for over the 20 years with a great number of
conventional devices and always the same,easy,sweet hobby! Occasionally i collect some
rare item and gain a very good money on market for it. That's how i survived some years,
that's how i collected money to buy newer and better devices.But when tried something
simillar with rods,odds,UG12,Voyager 2005,FG78,Electroscope....and a few more disputable
products i founded nothing...zero...empty pockets....no money....wasted time,wasted nervs,
wasted fuel........everything wasted!!!
Somebody may post here even 10 ooo pics with coins,rings,gold items etc. but it means no
proofs at all to me. I do have to much finds here,at home.I can post here million pics with
my finds and claim that i founded them with a couple of rods or mineoro or with something
else.No point at all.
Esteban,do not undestand me wrong(like somebody else did).I am not "attacking" you....
No,not at all! I just want to explain to you that there is no such radio frequency in this
life, that it can penetrate in the ground !!!No such thing! I am electronic engineer, also
radio-amateur on some bands for over the 25 years.Trust me, i do know much about radio and
radio frequencies.NO RADIO FREQUENCY THAT PENETRATE IN TO GROUND !!! Remember that.
Frequencies bellow aprox.50 kHz can peneterate through some type of materials, but weak,
very weak. Famuous EMFAD UG12 is designed to collect some signals from remoted TX's and
according to that shifted,rephazed results to "make some picture" of situation in the
nearby ground.All works perfect in theory.But in practice,in real life, it is unusable
almost in 90% of cases....it shows just as a good intention and sweet dream, nothing else!
You mentioned some device and "radio freq" etc.etc. If that device works at least enything,
than, trust me, it does not use any radio frequency or any simillar concept....
WHen you hear somebody mentioned some frequency, linked to some metal detector,it is just
a frequency of output oscillator...it is frequency of electromagnetic field around search
coil.That frequency does not penetrate anywhere. You have electrmagnetic field and as far
it outspread, it is "zone of detection". Of course, as far as you go out, toward the end of
that zone, sensibillity became more weak.Density of electrmagnetic field is quite proportional
of levity of finding some item around... This was very prune explanation of eventual
conection between "radio frequency" and detection generally....More "technical" aproach you
may find on the other threads here. This thread is about mineoro.So far nobody impart any
proof that mineoro devices worth something. On the other hand, there are a number of people
who tested mineoro devices(myself too) and reported absolute "bust" of it !!!
So at the begining of my posts here i was not able to argue to much about it.I used rude
way to deal with awared or unawared proponents of that nonsence devices like mineoro.
Now i see that it is a better aproach to try to talk more with peoples here who has good
will to talk, without any prejudices and if that does not help than, simply to give up!
And i am giving up slowly....This was just "blank" during my spare time, nothing else.
But still, i do have "reserve" in my mind, still you are looking to honest to lie about, so
i can even beleive you that you have found those finds with some lrl...and i can explain
to myself, and to you how? Here is how: you are borned with "extra sence" skills, you are
not awared of those skills.Your mind is "accepting" any apparatus you choose by case, and
when holding that apparatus in your hands,on the field, than your "skills" start to do a job!
The same thing with rods and odds....
My point was from the begining, why wasting money on expensive nonsence devices, while you
can do same thing with much cheaper apparatus, for example rods...
If you have "borned with" sences and skills, the result is gonna be same as with moneoro!
Dell, that's why your mineoro acts like "quack", Some day you are tired,other day you are
sick,another day you are just fine...and that day your mineoro is locating burried items
very easy....at the end of a day you are very happy man!
Who's gonna convince you and Esteban and others that mineoro sucks? Nobody!
Concerning this, i am very ready to beleive you people,that those finds you are posting
here,are real and that you are not frauds.That's why i never,and NEVER,claimed that any of you
are fraud at all. I only claimed, and i am gonna claim again,that major LRL manufacturers
are FRAUDS forever!Using already,very well known,phenomena of beautifull human mind, to earn
a lot of money and became rich!And this is not metaphysics! This is antrophology.
regards to all

[Dell Winders]

Carl, I have only tested the Mineoro, under the operating conditions experienced here in Central Florida.

The same negative operating conditions may not have existed, experienced, or recognized, by the manufacturer in his part of the world. I don't know. I'm speaking from my own experience of using the Mineoro, in Central Florida conditions ONLY.

Hmmmm.... almost sounds like LRL results are... completely random!

By recognizing the fact that there are limitations makes it possible to conduct a field survey accordingly, or the manufacturer to build a better product with less limitations.

But, in reality, the results are no more random,or out of line with the amount of depth penetration that was lost by Whites, Garrett and Fisher metal detectors we tested in 1992 under fluxuating LRL operating conditions. Of course, I never saw you, the manufacturers, or engineers informing consumers of that problem? Dell

[Dell Winders]

Hi Robert, I don't defend the advertising claims for the Mineoro, but I am at a loss as to how you believe it can be controlled with the mind. If that is true then it means I was mentally controlling the beeps made by the Mineoro with my mind while it was being operated by another party. I don't think I'm capable of that, but it would be nice if I could.

In the tests I conducted and in most of it's usage, I was not the operator. I purposely served as an observer so I could understand the problems a newbie might have in using the instrument. The owner wasn't having any results with the Mineoro when he got it. It beeped everywhere. Now that he understands the problem which I have explained here he tunes and uses it accordingly. I am going to see about getting him a magnetic "field" meter so he can check the meter to know when the Mineoro, will work, and when it won't.

I don't know anything about electronics, but years of trial and error has helped me recognize some of the field problems encountered in the use of electronic applications to the physicsof earth science. If you still have your locators, I'll be happy to help you understand their limitations and perhaps you can salvage some benefit from your investments. Dell